[Australia] GTE Downunder

[ant]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

I decided to get my gearbox looked at and syncros replaced... turned into a bit of an ordeal so fare.

Well after trying to identify my straight cut gears and syncros... from what Quaife told me on the phone, they do indeed appear to be Quaife… so should I expect the syncros to be STD Vauxhall/Opel then... well I think from what I once knew so I emailed Quaife these images and waiting a reply.







I removed the syncros from a F20 gearbox out of a Calibra which is different as you can see… so is there an early and late type of syncros for the F16 and F20 gear boxes? Can anyone identify what part numbers they would be from Vauxhall?



The other question I want to ask is about the plastic ends on the selector forks can these be bought as well? Or can I buy the whole fork but also is there an upgraded selector fork as I have broken one finger off once before?

Harry Hockly has upgraded ones for mega bucks... is there another option?

http://hh-ms.com/parts-catalogue/?Se...bCategoryID=38

They are for a dogbox would they work for syncros?

I was pointed to this great site from a guy on MIG... the site has great info but misses the Ascona C for some reason.

http://ecat24.com/opel/catalog/models/1/

If you go to Kadett -E the F16 5spd has the same double syncro as the F20...

http://ecat24.com/opel/catalog/part/1/22/338/2286/22655,22664,22652/

If you go to the F16 4 spd

http://ecat24.com/opel/catalog/part/1/22/338/2283/22612,22609/

...it does show the same layout as in my Camira gear layout.



The Camira gear and syncro layout is exactly the same as the Quaife layout.

After looking at it for a while I came up with this list of forks and syncros but F16 4spd not having 5th and I have tried to use a F20 5th syncro they are different.

So can I assume... yeah dangerous... that the Cav F16 5spd that predates the Kadett-E may have the correct syncros I need?

Does anyone have a early workshop manual or drawing of a the gear layout and part numbers for all 5 syncros and forks.

Here is a list that maybe right using F20 selector forks and F16 4spd syncros:

F16 and F20 Selector Forks

90344077 734241 FORK,SELECTOR,FIRST AND SECOND GEAR

90184831 734200 FORK,SELECTOR,THIRD AND FOURTH GEAR


F16 TYPE WIDE RATIO FOUR SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION Opel KADETTE-E

90304685 718994 CONE,SYNCHRONIZER,FIRST AND SECOND GEAR

90305940 718892 CONE,SYNCHRONIZER,THIRD AND FOURTH GEAR

[ant]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

Ok after just got of the phone speaking to Matt at Quaife... I appear to have a F10 Straight cut gearset in my F20... So that was a surprise and maybe explain a little but sure as hell is getting complicated.

So if anyone knows anything about early Quaife F10 gearsets into F16/F20 boxes please let me know what you know.

So going by what I now know this maybe what I am after:

F10 TYPE WIDE RATIO FIVE SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION model Opel KADETTE-E

http://ecat24.com/opel/catalog/part/...4,22604,22590/

19 90077932 718900 CONE,SYNCHRONIZER,FIRST AND SECOND GEAR (BOCHUM) (NLS.- NO REPLACEMENT PART) 4
19 90147286 718986 CONE,SYNCHRONIZER,THIRD GEAR 2

12 90077932 718900 CONE,SYNCHRONIZER,FIRST AND SECOND GEAR (BOCHUM) (NLS.- NO REPLACEMENT PART) 2
12 90217546 718992 CONE,SYNCHRONIZER,FIFTH GEAR 2 I think this is a miss print

29 90147047 718972 CONE,SYNCHRONIZER,FIFTH GEAR (NLS.- USE 90523007 7 18 964) 1

[RallyMarshal]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

Hi Ant

Despite what Quaife might have told you (I assume from looking up the gear number) It cant be an F10 gearkit as the F10 is definately single baulk ring. Plus Im positive the input and output shaft lengths are different etc too and wont fit in a standard F16/F20 casing.

I ran an F10 in my Astra with the 1400 but upgraded to F20 last year. I know of a spare F10 cluster with broken 2nd gear. I will take a look tomorrow and see what the gear part number are stamped on it. Its not mine but is in my garage.

I also believed that the std F16 was single baulk ring rather than double. Bit of a mystery really.

[ant]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

Thanks yeah I am confused I must say.

Just some history The gearset was bought from harry hockly about 1990... the set was bought just as gears and put onto a STD F16 3.9:1 pinion main shaft. The previous owner can't tell me if he got the syncros at the same time. But if you look at the Camira F16 gearset and syncro this is what I have except with straight cut gears... so he could have use the Camira Syncros.

So Quaife where saying these F10 gears are slid onto a F16 shaft... the only thing I can tell you is if you look at the F10 5spd gearset in my previous post the are the same type at least.

Another thing none not even the 5th gear syncro was even close enough from the F20 gearbox.

His lasts words where he will pass on the info to someone else to look at... I'm not holding my breath as they aren't getting a sale... I can just hope this guy has a look.

[ant]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

F10 they say it is.

Hi Anthony,

Thank you for the phone call earlier, but unfortunately after speaking

to my colleagues all we can suggest is speak to Vauxhall as they should

be able to supply the F10 synchros for yourself.

Kind regards

Matt Weller

Technical Sales Quaife

DDI +44 (0)1732 749526

[RallyMarshal]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

If they are F10 baulk rings then I have 1 (or maybe 2) F10 boxes here complete.

I dont believe Vauxhall supply the F10 synchros anymore

I will try to look at this gearset this weekend to confirm F10 and take a few photos if I get time.

Paul..

[RallyMarshal]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

Im not sure how much help this will be.

I checked and it seems the Quaife SCCR I thought was F10 must be F13 as it has double synchros. Anyway, heres a piccie anyway



And an image of the end gear..



Plus I also took a photo of the spare F20 std cluster I have. Came in a sparespack with a car so really not sure what its from originally, but has Opel F20 engraved into the input shaft.



Paul..

[RallyMarshal]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

Just checked the Quaife cluster.

I think it might be an F13 input shaft with F10 gears on it.. Hmm.

Paul..

[ant]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

You wouldn't be able to tell if they are double or single cone unless you pulled them apart. The double cone is a synchro inside a synchro with a metal intermediate ring between the 2 but from the out side you will just see the brass little serrated fingers next to the gears matching little serrated fingers... if that makes sense.

My gears are marked E-3C1-07, E-3C1-06, E-3C1-05 and E-3C1-04 etc. and they are saying they are F10.

Yesterday I did some more searching and I found a site listing Ascona C 5spd gearbox with exploded parts view that shows all synchros as single cone and shared some same part numbers. Which explains the exploded view of my Holden Camira box because they are the same car.

I'll do a few pics and links when I have time to demonstrate it all.

I was hoping you had one gearbox already apart... so don't go to too much trouble to strip a gearset unless you feel the need or you have to anyway.

AHHH you don't have to... the top one is single cone (likely F10) and the bottom is the double cone (common with F16/F20) you can tell by the gap in the synchro ring serrated teeth.

The top has no gaps or missing teeth and the bottom does.



Look at these F20 ones with the gap in the teeth. Look at these bellow they have no missing teeth



This was staring me in the face for 3 days lol.

So to double check can you spin the F10 gearset and make sure there is no gaps in the brass teeth... from the pic it looks like there is not and that should be enough of a segment to see.

[RallyMarshal]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

You wouldn't be able to tell if they are double or single cone unless you pulled them apart. The double cone is a synchro inside a synchro with a metal intermediate ring between the 2 but from the out side you will just see the brass little serrated fingers next to the gears matching little serrated fingers... if that makes sense.

My gears are marked E-3C1-07, E-3C1-06, E-3C1-05 and E-3C1-04 etc. and they are saying they are F10.

Shows my lack of knowledge then. I dont usually work on the boxes. I assumed the 2 synchros next to each other would be double and a single row single!

Can only find a marking on 1 of the gears - E-5C1-05 without stripping the cluster.

Paul..

[ant]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

nah me neither... but thanks without looking at your pics I still would have been waiting for the penny to drop. I'm a little closer to solving it and know knowing I don't have to strip a gearbox to see what synchro type they are is one step closer.

I have a couple of boxes at my parents 500kms away, so I can get my father to take the selector turret off and look at the synchros for me... that's if I can't buy a new set... which doesn't look very promising atm F10 synchros seem to be non existent on ebay and the web in general. So I'll have to ring a Vauxhall spare parts in the UK to see if I can... anyone know a good Vauxhall Dealer to talk to?

[RallyMarshal]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

Ant

I definately have 1 spare 4 speed F10 and I *think* theres a 5 speed F10 (as well as several F13s -a mix of WR/CR boxes and I also have a spare F16 too)

As Im using a Quaife F20 SCCR and have a spare box and another spare cluster too, I dont think I'll be needing the F10s although I might need the F13s or F16 for a project I have in mind. If you want the F10s for parts then Im sure we can get them sent to you.

Whats the part number on the input shaft you have? and is the output shaft a 1 piece shaft with pinion integrated or can the pinion be changed?

Paul..

[ant]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

My input shaft is E-3C1-02 and the main shaft is one piece like a F16.

At this stage I am just trying to make sure I can identify and try to buy new synchros but failing that I will be looking for secondhand ones.

[ant]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

Ok where to start.

I have my box back together and in the car... just took it for a spin and yes I have 5 forwards and one backwards.

What I can tell... well anyone who may care... is that my Quaife gearset uses F16 early type synchro's. Not saying Quaife are wrong at this stage but given my gearset has a different identification of the F10 in RallyMarshal gearset... I am having my doubts till I can actually see a set for myself.

Just to clarify:

RallyMarshal F10 Quaife gearset identification is E-5C1-05

My F16 Quaife gearset identification is E-3C1-05

F10 and F16 may share the same synchro's but I can't find evidence to support this to date.

I used second hand early type Holden Camira/Vauxhall Cavalier/Opel Ascona 4speed synchro's to fix my box. 5th gear synchro I got from a Daewoo gearbox.

I have though got a supplier that can reproduce the synchro's for my box in brass at a reasonable cost. So if indeed the F10 synchro's are the same then I can supply them to anyone once I get a set for myself and test the quality. The set is the full 5spd set.

[ant]

Re: [Australia] GTE Downunder

It's raining here and predicted for the weekend... may not get the chance to race if it keeps up

I did get to install my new incar 1080p camera... the proper mount and stereo mic hasn't arrived but I cobbled this together and used the internal mic.

The road is wet and the tyres are as hard as nails... so listen to the wheel spin