Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Injector size requirements

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Injector size requirements

    I was reading this

    Fuel injectors - These are opened by the ECU to add fuel to the cylinders, the longer they are opened for, the more fuel is added. As explained above, the fuel pressure is regulated so if a pulse of say 1.5mS is applied to the injector the same amount of fuel flows from the injector under all load conditions. An injector is rated by its flow in either lbs/hr or cc/min, this is usually measured with a fuel pressure of 43PSI.
    1 lb/hr ~ 10.5cc/min
    Don't think that you simply select the biggest injectors you can find, as this would be wrong. If an injector is selected that is too big you wont get a good steady idle or a steady cruise, as a small increase in the pulse sent to the injector from the ECU will have a large change in fuel. It then becomes difficult to control the AFR making for a lumpy idle and cruise, and it can be difficult if not impossible to get through emission testing. The injector is basically a solenoid which has 12V ignition feed to one side of it and the ECU switches the other side to ground in order for it to make it open and therefore fuel flow through it. There is no positive or negative to an injector so they can be connected either way round, but it's a good idea to keep all of them wired the same on your setup to aid fault finding, etc.

    A rough guide to selecting injectors is:
    InjectorSize = (HorsePower * BSFC) / (#Injectors * DutyCycle)
    BSFC = brake specific fuel consumption. This is usually between 0.42 and 0.58 at wide open throttle. Normally aspirated engines with efficient combustion processes are at the lower end of the BSFC scale ~0.45, where as a supercharged engine tend to be towards the higher end ~0.55.
    Duty Cycle is the amount of time the injector is opened when compared to the amount of time it has available to fire between engine cycles. A max duty cycle of 85% is highly recommended, 100% is the absolute maximum, but is not recommended as you are at the very limit of your fueling, don't feel you can cheat this, you can't!
    If your not sure then select a set of injectors from an engine that has the same amount of cylinders you have and that produces a similar amount of BHP.

    Selecting the correct size injectors isn't as hard as you may think. If you already have an EFI setup then simply retain those unless you are about to increase the BHP dramatically. Don't think that you can simply increase fuel pressure to increase your injectors flow rate, as there is a limit that your pump and pipes and injectors can take. Also fuel flow doesn't increase at the same rate as pressure, flow increases at the square root of increase of fuel pressure, so you'll need a massive increase in fuel pressure to gain much from an injector.



    So using that formula I calculated that for a four cylinder engine at 200hp 278cc/min injectors are required

    The standard XE ones are 214cc/mim@2.5bar which indicates they may be too small for my needs.


    Could someone check my sums and share their experiences please ... thanks

  • #2
    Re: Injector size requirements

    yeah that works out, 278cc with some comfortable margin for duty cycle.

    believe it or not the sbd kit run the standard creams up to 100% duty (3.5 bar/50psi) but unless you are going round milbrook at 150mph in 5th with your foot flat to the floor for half an hour youll hardly ever see 100% duty, it will be just a micro second before changing gear.

    wise words in the italic text too about going too big, i swapped to LET injectors at 3bar, but due to their flow rate and slow latency they couldnt actually mechanically open and close quick enough to deliver the small amount required at idle. basically overfuelled and idled lumpy.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Injector size requirements

      the later xe's had the blue injectors anybody know what the flow rate on these are?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Injector size requirements

        Blues are 241cc/min @ 3 bar

        My TB's came with Siemens 630cc/min @ 3bar .... I guess I shouldn't use them then ... lol

        Shame they are new unused and a four hole spray pattern. They can have the bar turned down quite a bit but even so ..... Perhaps I'll sell them to get some dosh back ... anyone want them. Good for high HP ... 500hp+

        Ballenger Motorsports Siemens DEKA IV ( DEKA 4 ) Mototron 60lb/hour High Impedance Injectors ( Long Style ) with EV1 Connector (MOTR-04556) for only $72.99!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Injector size requirements

          yah blues flow the same as creams at 3 bar, give or take. creams are traditional pintle injector, blues are disk type like LET yellows.

          those siemens sound very nice and profitable daz

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Injector size requirements

            Originally posted by BlackBox View Post
            Blues are 241cc/min @ 3 bar
            sorry dont know too much about injectors myself you can think of it as a learning curve if you wish...would the blues be better to use than the standard creams?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Injector size requirements

              The guy that sold me the TBs (on behalf of his mate who didn't end up using them) is using the exact same set-up inc cams and 630cc injectors on his c20xe Caterham.

              He says it runs sweet, but to me these injectors simply look too high a flow rate. By quite a margin too ....

              Think I'd prefer some higher flow injectors over the standard creams, but what ....?


              I will play with the creams for now though and report back with the findings, they may be fine ... probably

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Injector size requirements

                Originally posted by G.TERI.E View Post
                sorry dont know too much about injectors myself you can think of it as a learning curve if you wish...would the blues be better to use than the standard creams?
                Now that I don't know? Early stages of this minefield for me too

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Injector size requirements

                  if you can get enough info on the blues and are worth trying i have got a set in the garage "recommend a clean before using though". if you want to experiment with them let me know i can always post them over to you,, keep us posted on your findings.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Injector size requirements

                    I'm pretty sure there is no real difference between the cream and blue flow rates, just the spray pattern is different, better for emissions I believe and perhaps better fuel economy at low rpm?

                    I'm sure Darren will advise ..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Injector size requirements

                      Originally posted by DarrenH View Post
                      yah blues flow the same as creams at 3 bar, give or take. creams are traditional pintle injector, blues are disk type like LET yellows.
                      pintle type have a narrow spray pattern and fire the fuel directly at the back of the inlet valves to help atomise it. disk type have 4 holes, more modern, finer wider spray patter. i'd vote they would be marginally more efficient like you guys say.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Injector size requirements

                        That's why Vauxhall swapped to blues to try and keep the XE in production before the latest round of Euro emissions killed them off. 3 bar, finer spray pattern for better emissions. That was all though really. If you are running a standard XE on 2.5 bar and creams leave it alone............

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Injector size requirements

                          What about ecotec reds? I think they are 240cc @3bar Probley just about perfect at 4bar. Thats what I'm using but then I'm not aiming as high and plan to run a second set outboard.
                          Returned GTE to default settings : On axle stands

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Injector size requirements

                            The TB's will take a 2nd set of injectors and the MS ECU unit can have two maps running so can fully control both sets, one set for low revs for a smooth bottom end and both sets for full blat.

                            OK, it's getting complicated cos I ain't even fired her up yet, but it can be done.

                            Back to one set ... lol

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Injector size requirements

                              Originally posted by BlackBox View Post
                              The TB's will take a 2nd set of injectors and the MS ECU unit can have two maps running so can fully control both sets, one set for low revs for a smooth bottom end and both sets for full blat.

                              OK, it's getting complicated cos I ain't even fired her up yet, but it can be done.

                              Back to one set ... lol
                              I was going to change over to the outers only at high revs, with mine get it running on inside set first as well.
                              Returned GTE to default settings : On axle stands

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X