Bulkhead restoration project

[KEV]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

I don't want to be negative but I don't think any of that bracing is going to do anything other than make the car heavier really. It'll make the floor section more solid for sure but I can't say I think the car needs it that much. Don't let me put you off though. A chassis is a box and if you make one side stronger the weakness will just move, modern cars are far more complicated in their design, it all ties together and its more to do with safety and load paths in an accident. You wouldn't think it but the floor is actually quite strong because of all the pressed shapes it has in it, essentially making it stressed skin. Thats why it doesn't sag when you sit in it. I don't know if your going to run a cage in this but you'll be amazed at how different the car feels when one is fitted, you notice it as soon as you let out the clutch. I've been meaning to make a brace between the wishbones on mine but it'll be much more direct, because I don't worry so much about ground clearance on the track car.

[BenH]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

I cant see why not tbh, but then I dont know anything about your test really.

[gte 16v]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

Nice job on the underside bud, keep it up.

[Vinci]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

It doesn't seem so strong to me, and to my experience a construction does get stronger from bracing the weakest parts...

Also my chassis is a 5 door and don't forget the floor in the picture is different from mine as I have an older Kadett with low tunnel and if you look closely the later floor has a box section along side and bracing across the tunnel exactly where I planned it on mine. Would reckon they did that for a good reason!

The weight isn't so bad, the bars are roughly 4 kilograms per meter.

To keep it simple right now I think I will stick to just the front bars and brace at the back of them for now as I need this car on the road rather fast. We'll see how it goes from there...

The good part of the front bars is also that I can put the seam between the old and the new floor on top of them, which makes them invisible from under the car...

[DarrenH]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

i think bens idea is good, running some CDS tube through the sill cavity, between the inner and outter, with gussets.

it keeps it invisible, connects the 2mm double skinned bulkhead to the rear outriggers, wont effect ground clearance

[KEV]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

i think bens idea is good, running some CDS tube through the sill cavity, between the inner and outter, with gussets.

it keeps it invisible, connects the 2mm double skinned bulkhead to the rear outriggers, wont effect ground clearance

I've seen that done on a mk2 rally chassis before, might even have been on here actually. I'm pretty sure the uprights and cage were all tied in to it.

Vinci don't get mad fella. I'm not attacking you. I can see what your saying, I just don't think its needed all that much. The modern stuff that has all those chassis rails are nearly all done like that because they are a modern take on the old 'body-on-frame' design, like a pickup truck but more integrated and not as beefy or complete. I don't really know what chassis you have, I thought that picture was it, a 5 door should be stronger than a 3 door anyway.

[DarrenH]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

wonders what they did to cabriolet shells on the floor pan ?

[Vinci]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

Another days work to get the floors in, and running the two beams was a breeze to get the two floors together. Welding them down is much easier as welding them up from underneath as that just makes the welds drip down in the torch and ruin it...

I would have run some CDS tube or the like down the sills if they were rusted, but they are too good to be removed for now. Maybe in a few years....

[Vinci]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

Vinci don't get mad fella. I'm not attacking you. I can see what your saying, I just don't think its needed all that much. The modern stuff that has all those chassis rails are nearly all done like that because they are a modern take on the old 'body-on-frame' design, like a pickup truck but more integrated and not as beefy or complete. I don't really know what chassis you have, I thought that picture was it, a 5 door should be stronger than a 3 door anyway.

Nah I'm not mad, just disappointed LOL

I do get what you're saying, if you look at the whole chassis it is obvious it takes a lot more than just a few beams to stiffen it up. And yes, a 5 door has the same bracing as a cabriolet inside the sills, which makes repairs on the a bit more complex. Some bits are also thicker walled than the 3 door chassis. But I remember a test that showed torsion stiffness (newtons per millimeter movement) of the Kadett bodies (3 door, 5 door, cabriolet, caravan) and the stiffest is still the three door. The five door is fairly close, but the cabrio is flimsy as a twig.

Today I finished some of the welding on the floor and the corners of the bulkhead, drilled off one of the turrets and then clamped it down further behind. Then placed one whishbone, strut and rack and jacked up the wishbone in to the position it will have at rest. Wanted to see if it all cleared and it is just plain wonderful how it all fits!!

It's getting there! Tomorrow I will weld it up and take the other one off. The other one has some rusty corners and behind it the seam between the front and rear arch is rusty and that overlaps with the inside of the car so need to patch that up a bit....

[Vinci]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

wonders what they did to cabriolet shells on the floor pan ?

Well, here's the sills at least, floor pan is with large tunnel only iirc...

[Vinci]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

Some more work done, the front crossmember welded in, the A-pillar bracing plates, removed another turret and welded the other in place more backwards...

[Vinci]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

You guys lost your tongues?

Tomorrow the work continues... Last bits of welding I hope, then fit my new exhaust parts and make plans on how to put them together best.

Also visited a body specialist who repairs and paints all firebrigade vehicles here, and does trucks and vans for the company I work for. This is a guy with over 45 years of experience and I actually got some professional products from him for free, like very elastic seam sealer from 3M, and some of the thick more conventional 3M seam sealer. I also got some of those Silicone Carbide discs from him to remove paint easier. And he also showed me some stuff from 3M (his main supplier) in bags that is a two component stone chip coating that can even be sprayed directly on bare steel sheet and acts as an all in one coating. Manufacturers also use this stuff. You can paint it over as well, it's incredibly strong stuff and sticks to the metal like a primer....

http://www.wessexautocolors.co.uk/08800-two-part-sprayable-sealer-grey-250ml.htm

He's also got some professional hollow space sealer (wax based) that is also what manufacturers use.

Still got some 2K paint in red from my sprayers, so will start to clean all the bodywork up tomorrow, sand it and when I receive my box of stone chip coating I will get most of it coated with it.

It also works as a sound deadener, and he actually advised to use it inside on the floors instead of the bitumen mats because these mats can always allow water to crawl under it, while this stuff can make a lifetime aquarium out of your car without allowing it to rust! LOL

It's also quite 'thick' in the end and will even mask most of the welds really nicely.

Stay tuned!

[Vinci]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

http://mobile.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=975921&r=18981335&hm=42108&mid=42108

[img]http://www.mwstewart.co.uk/images/3632/[/img

[Speedett]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

Great work keep it up! the 3M product looks good im going to look into using it myself, by the way how come you didnt make a spit for it?
reason i ask is i was advised not to as it could stress the shell in areas? i was just wondering your thoughts on it because i dont fance lying on the ground scraping off this crap and trying to paint it!

[Vinci]

Re: Bulkhead restoration project

You can use a spit mate, no problem. As long as you make a brace first to place on the car at the front and at the back, then to hang it up in there And before hanging it up and cutting in the shell it's best to make it as light as possible, remove the doors etc. I just didn't make spit because I wasn't going to do the whole car, didn't plan on replacing the floors really. Looking back I definitely would have wanted a spit because it saves your spine on all the stone chip coating removing....

Painting isn't that hard for floors and wheel arches etc. All you need is a professional weld thru primer and then just coat every little bit of bare metal with it. That stuff becomes rock hard and has a galvanizing effect where it is welded. Then after just use the 08800 and when wanted coat it in the colour of the car, if not necessary you can leave it be...

I will use it on the whole bulkhead as it seals small seams and works as a sound deadener as well, and then spary some parts in red again after with a 2K all in one paint.

Today welded back the other turret and repaired some small rusty seams, cleaned up the bulkhead parts that have been welded on and coated with a little weld thru primer. Also welded in two extra beams on the A-pillar strengthening bits. Pics will follow...