Supercharged V6 GTE

[Squig]

-----------

The Plan Revised;
A GTE powered by a 3.0l 24v supercharged V6, through a 6 speed F28. Initally through the front wheels, using the M-Tech converter, then, when time, money and, more importantly, space allows, convert the car to run 4WD using the transfer box (modified using a brace for the engine facing side and a oil cooler and electric pump) and 4WD setup from a calibra.

-----------



Well folks I thought, time to post on the progress so far... I now have lots of pics of the stripdown, but first a little background as to why...

After owning my first 2.0l 8v GTE I decided I wanted to do something with it but was unsure what. The LET conversion was considered and discarded, because it seemed everyone had, or knew someone who had, gone down this route, so I then considered N/A power and on a whim bought a 2.5l 24v V6 (the C25XE).

In hindsight, I should have held out and bought a 3.0l V6 knowing what I know now, but anyway...

...3 years pass, zoom to now...

...The Rebuild as it happens...

The original inlet manifold was lost long ago, having been removed for polishing, a new one has been bought but may not be used now due to the current supercharger plans, hence it never appears in the pictures...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0057.jpg

Stripped off the fuel lines, the next part of the manifold, the "bridge" + sensors and the other parts from the gearbox side...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0070.jpg

It's at this point I notice something looks a little odd in the cylinder heads...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0071.jpg

As it turns out the engine has a little rust in some awkward places, but as one of the parts I want to upgrade is the valves on with the stripdown...

Remove the cover...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0073.jpg et viola.. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0075.jpg

Now all the pullies, belts and the backplate have been removed...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0081.jpg

How much engine can you fit in a box?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0080.jpg

This much!, and the stuff I added today.

Now most of the external components have been removed I had a crack at the cylinder heads, removing the inlet and exhaust cams and then complete removal.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0094.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0095.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0096.jpg

If you look you can see the oily-watery goo in the sparkplugs, DO NOT LEAVE AN ENGINE TO THE ELEMENTS FOR 3 YEARS! They do not like it!

Also drained the oil... I wish I'd had the video on for this, it was disgusting! first about a litre of water poured out (managed to get my had out quick but the sump nut is lost to the tar bucket!), then the muck that you get when oil and water mix slopped out followed by the blackest, nastiest oil I have ever seen! See the pic below...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0097.jpg

Yuck!
Once the cylinder heads had been removed the full extend of the water damage became apparent...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0102.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0100.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0104.jpg

Other bank looks better...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0103.jpg

Well that's as far as I've got... roll on next weekend.

[mking]

seems to be alot of work going on there mucho :grinning-smiley-043

nice to see that wheel chair seems to be coming in handy aswell!

[Squig]

oh yeah the wheelchair/engine stand... perfect when you need to move the engine around but I'm not looking forward to flipping the lump over to finish stripping

[Ian T]

Yowch, aren't those bores too rusty to be usable, or are you having them re-honed?

Ian.

[Squig]

Yowch, aren't those bores too rusty to be usable, or are you having them re-honed?

Ian.


Definate re-hone, unless someone wants to donate a 3 litre bottom end :D

[Ian T]

LOL

I heard of a pair of 3 litre heads for sale in Lincolnshire for £100 if any use? ;)

Ian.

[Squig]

cheers fella I got some 3.0 heads for the cams initally so a block is the only thing required

[Squig]

well after seeing the state of that piston I've decided to scrap the 2.5 v6 idea...




















...I'm getting a 3.0 v6 instead!!!
Reasons for this change of heart;
1) the state of that cylinder...
2) forged pistons and other bits are easier to get for the 3.0...
3) the price I'm paying for the engine!

Oh and ladies and gents he has another omega to get rid of, complete, about £600 and it can be delivered I'm told for about a ton. Mikeyh on Vauxhall Owners Network (sorry to the moderator for the crass plug :D) someone buy it!

[Ian T]

Mikeyh on Vauxhall Owners Network (sorry to the moderator for the crass plug :D) someone buy it!

Hey, we're all friends. :)

I'm 'Ian' on there BTW.

Keep us posted as you do more work.

Ian.

[DarrenH]

since all the engineering will be bespoke and made to fit yuor car, why not go for a 4x4 system that is strong and works better? theres absolutely no reason to use the flawed cavalier system *just* because you have a vauxhall engine.

[Mark T]

strip an EVO for it's running gear.

no need to turn the engine round then.

[Squig]

tbh I had no idea that I could use mitzy running gear... when you say flawed cav running gear are you perhaps refering to the paper transfer box or is there other parts that are reputably bad?

[Mark T]

Transfer box is the main weak point of the Cavalier 4x4 system.

[Squig]

I found a company who can do a complete rebuilt transferbox for £1500 with all new uprated internal

[Squig]

Sports Transfer Box (S-VG) - (Exchange)

+ Reconditioned asabove
+ Viscous coupling customized for high power engines (max. 300 bhp) - Viscous coupling torque adjusted to a maximum of 180 Nm from the 90 Nm turbo standard, as measured at the prop shaft.

£1185.00

This is the bunny

[Squig]

+ Pressure ring and seal
+ Pressure ring housing
+ all gaskets and seals
+ all bearings
+ clutch disk plate assembly
+ viscous coupling overhaul
+ new ring gear and bevel wheel assembly
+ Crown wheel & pinion assembly's

the recon as specified above

[Mark T]

Trouble with uprating the Viscous coupling, is the Crown wheel still strips it's teeth off.

[Squig]

Well the charger arrived... may have over estimated the room between banks thou...
Never mind I'll just have to raise the charger till it clears the banks

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0130.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0129.jpg

[DarrenH]

Trouble with uprating the Viscous coupling, is the Crown wheel still strips it's teeth off.

exactly, the sun gear coming from the clutch / planet gears into the viscous diff. munch munch.

despite the fact everyone goes on about ram seal failure on the clutch, its not actually a weakness in terms of mechanical component strength, all else being equal (i.e correct tread depth, and decent oil)

soon as you lock the clutch solid (which is what the sports box is) you pass the mechanical load onto the hypoid gear set (outter ring gear, planet gears, sun gear).

id wager a standard transfer box in fully working order would take mroe stick than a locked box, because of the clutch is buffering the force and torque acting on the gears down stream of it.

[Squig]

come on guys... no ones mentioned the size of the charger yet... I was looking forward to the shock value :(

[Tom]

Its bigger than the engine lmao !

[Squig]

THAT WAS THE REACTION I WANTED!!! Yayyyy!! :D

[Tom]

Over estimated...... just abit !!

Think you need two more cylinders Squig lol

[Squig]

thing is It came of a v6... a pontiac 3.8 :D

I should be able to get it to fit... but I may have a hell of a bulge in the bonnet!
by me maths should sit just between the two banks and leave about 4-6 inches proud of the top of the block

[Squig]

just going to make some measurements

[rhydgte]

Charger is a bit big mate lmao

[Squig]

Charger is a bit big mate lmao

I know!!! great ain't it:thumbsup:

taken measurements... if I grind off the orginal mounts and redrill and thread new mounts I can lower it down to about 6 inches proud of the block... it'll currently sit about 8-9 inches proud when the new inlet manifold is cast... got some more piccies... gonna post them in a bit

[neil105]

stick it throu the bonnet,belt showing, bugcatcher it'll look like a real one.

[Squig]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0142.jpg
See the width

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0138.jpg
Underside of the charger

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/IMAG0143.jpg
Showing the blower port relative to distance between banks

[Squig]

stick it throu the bonnet,belt showing, bugcatcher it'll look like a real one.

what do you mean "It'll look like a real one"??? It IS a real one!!

[neil105]

just got excited

[Squig]

just got excited

ahhhh, I undestand... the same thing happened to me when I saw it too!

[Squig]

Right picked up the engine yesterday, 10 straight hours of motorway driving and a bit of inner-edinburgh-driving (don't ever do it! it's seriously mind blowing, respect to the scots for living with it and not just giving up and moving to bicycles!), some pics today...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0144.jpg

There you have it a 3.0 v6... now suggestions on how to fit this in a transverse setup...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0147.jpg

side view...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0148.jpg

and some damage to contend with...

[Sipo]

Jesus, hell of a distance to pick up an engine - why did you travel so far? Glad to see the ball is still rolling on this, would hate to see another failed project :thumbsup:

[Squig]

Jesus, hell of a distance to pick up an engine - why did you travel so far? Glad to see the ball is still rolling on this, would hate to see another failed project :thumbsup:

the engine was £150... even with fuel and hire it was only £250. Worth it, I reckon... will continue with the pics as I strip it down. Also will be starting a thread on how to convert the longitudanal engine to transverse format... any info anyone has please reply to this thread.

[Tom]

Mark T or Alistair J are the the ones to ask about fitting the engine :thumbsup:

[Squig]

Mark T or Alistair J are the the ones to ask about fitting the engine :thumbsup:

cheers fella... did a little more earlier this evening (about 15mins ago!)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0153.jpg
the first part to be removed...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0157.jpg
Ta-daaa, and the plenum is removed...

[Squig]

Progress today...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0162.jpg
The block minus inlet gubbins...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0163.jpg
Wiring loom and various pipes and hoses...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0161.jpg
Inlet and other parts on the bench

[Squig]

...the work continues...

today I just spent some time removing the outer pulleys and cover, doing some more measuring and I have a clearer idea of where to mount a drive pulley for the charger. I reckon with a spacer I could mount the spare oil pump pulley off the c25xe to the water pump on the x30xe...

This would turn the supercharger at 156% of the engine RPM, e.g;

Engine = Charger
1000rpm = 1560rpm
2000rpm = 3120rpm
3000rpm = 4680rpm
4000rpm = 6240rpm
5000rpm = 7800rpm
6000rpm = 9360rpm
7000rpm = 10920rpm

not sure how much power this would produce but would like a smaller pulley to increase the supercharger RPM...

anyway on to the build...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0170.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0181.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0180.jpg

[Sipo]

Fair play, I have no idea how you figured out the difference in RPM speeds and I also have no idea what sort of RPM a superchrger runs at, but it looks as though you are pretty clued up.

[Squig]

getting there mate the rpm speed are simple really... work out the circumfrences of the pulley and work out the percentage differance in size and use that percentage on the RPM's... wrote an excel spreadsheet to do the hard work :D

Have also been chatting to the americans on SCCOA (Super Coupe Club of America), a supercoupe is just a supercharged coupe hence those guys know about Eaton superchargers as they are a stock item over there... just need to find a smaller pulley for the charger cos I need to be making about 1:2 ratio with the drive and charger pulleys. I need to be hitting about 14krpm at 7k rpm (charger then engine)...

[Squig]

Hi people been a couple of weeks with the v6 being mildly rejected in favour of a few heavy weekends ;)

but as a break, I've got some piccies of the head gasket change for you guys to have a giggle at...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/IMAG0186.jpg

SFI Box = Perfect tool shelf!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/IMAG0189.jpg

Now who could that be?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/IMAG0188.jpg

My screwdriver-wielding girlfriend, how lucky am I

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/IMAG0190.jpg

My least favorite bit, gettin it up on the ramps :(

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/IMAG0194.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/IMAG0195.jpg

The girlfriend displays her skills of defying gravity... oh and a great place to stash the loom :)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/IMAG0198.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/IMAG0199.jpg

Gotta love tippex!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/IMAG0202.jpg

What can I say, she loves a big motor ;)

[GazJevs84]

some ace work there mate :grinning-smiley-043

[Dale]

going well then! keep up the good work!

[Squig]

cylinder head was returned from the engineering firm today with 7 thousands of an inch removed due to warpage!!!
The courtenay cool-running thermostat arrived too :D

So fingers crossed I'll be pootling around again shortly, I'll get some piccies of the work put up in a few minutes.

[Squig]

Nice and clean head...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/100_0606.jpg

Nice new thermostat...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/100_0610.jpg

Do these need any attention or would you guys leave these alone?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/100_0598.jpg
P.S the line is a hair... :wasntme:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/100_0599.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/Head%20gasket%20change/100_0600.jpg

[micky taylor]

they look ok to me chap, if they wernt noisey before they should be fine

[Squig]

thats just it, they were...

[Brett]

oil bath for a week or so I was once told. They just need a clean mate and they will be fine. Go on MIGweband do a search, that should tell you exactly how to do it. deffinatly worth doing while youve got the cams out!

Liking the projet to btw:D

[Squig]

oil bath for a week or so I was once told. They just need a clean mate and they will be fine. Go on MIGweband do a search, that should tell you exactly how to do it. deffinatly worth doing while youve got the cams out!

Liking the projet to btw:D

Cheers Brett, funny you should mention that. I found that last night at about midnight :D

[Turbotom]

Fair play this is a very interesting thread! Looking forward to seing the finished v6 blowin article, would like to see this close up at some point as i toyed with this idea and sadly after years of saying i wouldnt went down the bloody let route instead,bugger!:grumpy:

[Squig]

well the head gasket change is nearly complete... little more tomorrow wiring up and what not then work on the strip will continue tomorrow evening :D

[Squig]

Shes done and as yet no leaks! Bonus!

Main reason for posting tonight is to pop a link on to my new Compression Ratio Calculator... it's kind of a repost here but it's here to keep all the info for this conversion in one place... CR Calculator (http://www.bigupload.com/d=71F27883) it's on Bigupload and you will need to wait 30 secs to download

Cheers

[Squig]

quick post this morning, a package arrived courtesy of ThinkAuto.com...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/IMAG0222.jpg

Yum, 6 meters of 8mm braided fuel lines cos mine are properly shagged.

[Harvey]

If you don't mind me asking how much was the braided hose and is it stainless? Was on the Think Automotive (www.thinkauto.com) site looking at hoses the other week as they have a really good selection.

[Squig]

£42 + £8.95 + VAT total £59.87 for 6 meters of 8mm diameter stainless steel braided fuel hose. Yes, it was on think automotive download their catalogue mate it's well worth a gander.

Thinking of getting one of their oil coolers for the v6, they look very nice... just wish I knew someone who'd used one and could report back.

[Squig]

one thing after another... now look at whats happened

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/IMAG0228.jpg

flipping exhaust broke on the way down to chester!

[Harvey]

Just pop some bluetack round the weld and it'll be fine:thumbsup:

[Ian T]

LOL... that'll weld up. ;)

Even I'd bin that though! Good opportunity to fit something that'll work better with the V6.

Ian.

[Squig]

now thats what I was thinking... 2.5" bore? stainless?

[AstraPower]

how much power will this beast be pumping out when its finished?

[Squig]

I haven't got a clue... somewhere near 350bhp with maybe 250lb/ft torque... guesstimate

[AstraPower]

I haven't got a clue... somewhere near 350bhp with maybe 250lb/ft torque... guesstimate

and any idea about 0-60 times? must be knocking on for 5 - 5.5 seconds?

[Squig]

depends on the grip mate, hence at that point tyres become the all important... 0-60 I haven't a clue, but eventually 5 secs or less once the AWD is fitted and I learn how to drive that much power and torque effectively. :)

[Squig]

Right... bit of a delay in progress of late. However I got out to the shed and got on with taking the v6 apart (slowly but surely, guys... I'm in no rush at this point. Saving for the pistons, rings and pins, atm), no pics as it was dark and I forgot the camera.

Got the bridge off and started on the heads, sparkplugs and some more of the aux parts... getting a pressing need to get the flywheel off but some of the automatic gubbins is in the way, so bought an omega haynez manual.

Also finding that a wheelchair is no subsitute for a proper engine stand... and a 6'x8' shed is no place for an engine stand... curses.
Started putting large items like wings and bodykit in the loft, got a little flak for that but not as much as I was expecting, to clear some room in the shed.

Anyone know of a good Engine Management system that is good with the v6, can compensate for the charger and has switchable "economy" setting?

[vauxmad]

starting to get some where then??

[Squig]

Yes mate. Slowly but steadly...

After the exhaust complications the other day I've decided to have another few hours of progress as opposed to problems... so I've visited the shed again this afternoon to continue taking the X30XE apart. Slow but steady :D.
Found the digital camera again so more pics...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0291.jpg
The main problem part to remove. Have had to remove the exhaust manifold to move the alternator to remove the starter motor to get access to the bolts to shift this thing!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0295.jpg

The exhaust covers and pipework...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0294.jpg

Starter and alternator...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0301.jpg

Et voila... removed.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/IMAG0308.jpg

Pulleys and belt next. Gone.

Where would I mount an engine stand to the v6 should I buy one?

[Mark T]

There's a cover in the omega sump for accessing the torque converter bolts ;)

There's also a plastic cover below the starter motor for the same job on Cav/Vectra, but not sure the bolts line up with that hole with an omega flex plate.

[Squig]

cheers mark... that going to be annoying... could I sell this or do I just break out the old trusty angle grinder and start cutting

as stated earlier the "stand" is a wheelchair with limited access underneath

[Mark T]

take out the plastic cover by the starter and rotate the engine see if any bolts appear.

[Squig]

take out the plastic cover by the starter and rotate the engine see if any bolts appear.

I'll try that, I'll get the head off first as I'll need to lift the block on to the floor... dead fun, all that lifting on my own :thumbsup:
at least then I can buy a stand and be able to remove the sump and internals

[Harry Belamonte]

Might I interject....

Make it RWD!!

You won't have to worry about converting that Omega lump to transverse, and what's more, the sooopercharger and it's bulge will look right!!

Still, I'm biassed.

Rob.

[Squig]

maybe something for the future, but for now FWD will do...

[Squig]

well some more progress has been made since I last posted... Torque converter has been removed as well as cams, however I've broken my stepdown socket and I'n not a happy bunny...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/EngineBuild110307003.jpg
My broken tool (ooo er!)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/EngineBuild110307005.jpg
The bar that was being used...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/squig/Cars/GTE/V6%20Rebuild/X30XE/EngineBuild110307006.jpg
The guilty head bolt...

Not happy as all my star sockets need the stepdown to work, and most of the bolts are star/torx (??)
Got an engine stand too...

[Ian T]

Well at least that head looks much better than the last one. :)

Halfords sell Torx bits with the large size (1/2") drive, I bought one after I destroyed my small one trying to angle tighten the bolts on an Omega a year or two back.

Ian.

[Squig]

Cheers Ian I'll grab a set next weekend.

[johnl]

Have you made any more progress on this?

[g3dd35]

erm what happen in the end or am i just being blond??? :(

[Vinci]

Heck of a project man!! What's up with it now indeed??