View Full Version : [Australia] GTE Downunder
Hey all..
I have been a GTE fan for so long I'm not sure where to start..
Back in 1990 or so a friend by the name of Rod Browning built a rally car that everyone laughed at.. well till he beat most o them. The car was a Holden Camira JE.. now this is as close as you can get to a Cavalier without the badges.
Rod knowing this built the Camira with all the data he could get from Harry Hockly and others on the Astra GTE rally car and a few bits like Quiafe F16 box etc.
I then bought the car and ran very succesfully for ages.
In 1995 GM Europe setup Daewoo and gave them the Mk2 Astra to start off with and in Australia sold them as a 15i. I and a few other contacted Daewoo and told them I had all the running gear and would like a body and minor support to run in the F2 champs.. but they refused and all was lost.
Last year I picked up a 15i for a few thousand and still having the Camira I am slowly bolting them together to make my very own GTE replica.
This will be a rally car for Classic Rallying pre 1985..
Current specs:
8v 2.0lt
10.5:1 compression
Mild Cam + vernier wheel
Std Mainifilds.. (inlet and exhaust port matched)
Balanced botom end
light flywheel (0.7kg off original weight)
Link Engine Management (fully programable)
Std F16 box fitted at Present 3.94 f/drive
Last time on dyno I had fuel pump die but not before 110hp at the wheels
Bilstein Shocks front and rear with King Springs 300pound front and 400pound rear (aprox 200pound at wheel) for tarmac setup..
Dirt setup I change the front to 200pound.
Front adjustable with solid tops
Peugeo 405 288mm front discs with Holden Commodore Caliper single piston (pug discs redrilled)
Holden Astra 265mm rear discs single piston with hand brake
Honda Prelude 1" master cylinder and booster
Wilwood bias valve
Hydraulic Hand Bake
Electric Power Steering from Holden Astra (same as the Vauxhall Astra)
richie00boy
21-07-2005, 04:13 PM
Nice to see you all the way on the other side of the world! Car looks good, and always nice to see another 8V performing well.
Another 8v for the classic series. :D
Belmont turbo
21-07-2005, 07:05 PM
nice car mate rally beast :D
Welcome matey, didnt realise the MK2 even had a couple of fans :D
I am just trying to get my head around your pictures - top left is your friends rally car, to the right is a nexia you have bought as a close shell to a MK2 GTE and below it in the garage is an acctual MK2? Or is it that nexia that you are transforming to look like a MK2 ?
Simon
Its the Daewoo with GTE bumper from sunny old england... if you look you may see bonnet vents as well but not flush like the real ones. I just cut the holes and fitted them.
I have rear bumper and side skirts coming.. all with the help of ebay.. gotta love it.
I Will get better pics for you to see.. I lived in London for 3 1/2 years and I wished I could have bought a whole car back.. :)
cielo20
22-07-2005, 09:33 AM
hi
are the shock top mounts the offset ones? if so where did you get them from? i need some for my cielo as it is going through a lot of tyres (on the inside) at a fast rate!
cielo20,
Designed and made them myself.. with a little help from a friend with the precise machining.
They may end up dearer than buying a set from the UK though!
A friend is setting a machine shop building/restoring planes.. I hope to move in and produce some parts for Daewoo to GTE conversions and for my own supply.
cielo20
22-07-2005, 08:41 PM
nice job! do they get the wheels straight again?
Didn't have a problem with anything this is just for strength and road feel.
Changing the camber/caster from the top mount is realy a waste of time because you only get minimal amount of change. Adjustable bottom arms will give you the best option for setup an give maximum amount of camber/castor.
astrasteve23
23-07-2005, 11:00 AM
interesting project there! keep us up to date! im loving those front legs and top mounts! me want!
The car has been moving along... so I thought I had better update you all with what I have done.
Adjustable Coil-Overs.
Front:
I did a few small things that most people wouldn't do.
I drilled out the bottom of the strut as I noticed the stop in the tube was a fare way up... then I machined a new stop about 15mm deeper. This game me about 25mm lower in the suspension with the same travel.
I then cut the tube bellow the thread at the top and shortened it accoudingly then fitted the coil-over kit. I also stiffened up the steering arm after I cut most of it away to get a little more length for the spring.
Rear:
Having my Bilstien Rally shocks I decided to build my coil-overs myself. I bought the threaded tube from King Springs and made the rest myself before ordering these coils specially made.
The shock body is 50mm which is a little large... thus I had to make the rest my self with Kings making me a special 51mm I/S dia spring. This is to fit it all under the guard and it is a tight squeese with the top mount and is offest in the top mount hole.
At the bottom I am using a collor over the threaded adjustment as the spring doesnt fit over the thread. This works fine I just need to make a nicer looking locking nut setup.
I stiffened up the mount on the rear arm as well.
Electric Power Steering:
Holden Astra electric power steering pump running a Holden Camira p/s rack which is 3.3 turns lock to lock
Brakes
Front:
I am using Commodore VL Turbo Calipers. These are 1 piston type but are so reliable. the rotors are Peugote 405 with redrilled holes 288mm dia.
On a track day I couldn't get them to fade dispite my left foot braking. But saying this I will be upgrading to 4 piston brakes when I have the money.
Rear:
Holden Astra single piston with hand brake 265mm dia. Work a treat. I will upgrade to 2 piston Calibra calipers and rotors when the fron is done.
I also ran the had brake cable through the arm so it didn't hang down under the car.
Hydraulic Handbrake / Brake Bias:
I built my own hydraulic handbrake so I could leave the cable handbrake in it's place.
The bias is Wilwood
Front Lower Control Arm
Here I completely reproduced the arm from scratch. I got an engineering company to bend me Chromoly tube to the arm shape then I made up the rest and bosses for the Chromoly Rod Ends plus brackets for the sway bar.
It took me a while to make sure I had all the anles right and that the rod ends didn't bind with the full travel in the suspension.
When I was happy I got them welded... I could have done this myself but I didn't have the correct filler rod and I wanted to make sure it was done correctly.
The rear rubber joint is replaced with a sherical bearing in this alumimium housing... I did this myself and next time I will do it a little differently as it was very time consuming to machine these.
I have designed "jacking spacers" and this will allow adjustment to caster without removing the bolts. The camber adjustment will however be a matter of removing the bolt from the bottom of the strut to the rod end and winding in and out for adjustment. I have made this a little easier by having a 5/8" bolt instead of the normal taper on the normal ball joint.
Ian T
29-10-2006, 09:54 AM
Lovely work there, I especially like the bespoke front arms (above) - I'm guessing that the spherical joints are really for track use and wouldn't last on the road?
Ian.
richie00boy
29-10-2006, 10:48 AM
Excellent work there :thumbsup:
Those front calipers look a beast to clean!
Lovely work there, I especially like the bespoke front arms (above) - I'm guessing that the spherical joints are really for track use and wouldn't last on the road?
Ian.
They are the best Chromoly Rod Ends with Teflon liner I could get without going to very expensive Aircraft stuff.
I have Rod End Seals http://www.sealsit.com/rodend.asp from the states... these should keep the dust and grime out...
These are no different from running sperical bearing in strut top mounts... mine have lasted ages without any dust covers.
Astra Mk2 bumpers and skirts bolted on Daewoo 15i
MK2-JOHN
29-10-2006, 02:09 PM
Looking very good that, i like it,
keep up the good work mate & keep us updated
astrasteve23
31-10-2006, 12:25 AM
how much to make me a pair of those Front Lower Control Arms? i want some!
I intend to come up with a price for these arms... I will want to make more for my own usage.
I will wait till I have them in my car and test them before this. I will also make it so there is no modification to your car... so basically a "bolt on" kit.
At pressent you would have to drill out the taper in the bottom of the strut... is not much but would be annoying for those who dont have access to a large drill press.
astrasteve23
03-11-2006, 12:36 AM
ok keep me posted.
The car has been transformed of late. Went down south recently and picked up my F16 straight cut close ration Quaife/Hewland gearbox with my new Quaife ATB now fitted... cant wait to get this going...
I fully stripped the car to just a shell and sent it off to the roll cage man.
Last week end I recieved the car back and I am very pleased with the job done will the cage. 8 point cage and is fixed the the shell in 22 places... should be stiff. The seat mounts and extra harnes fixing where fitted... the car is also engineered by the same guy so it will be fully road legal.
I have started to scrape the tar/sound deadner from the floor and remove the not needed rear seat brackets. So weight loss is the name of the game at the moment. I do suspect that the Daewoo reproduction of the Astra may be a little lighter... some parts the metal is soft and thin... well I am hoping anyway :)
Ant
Another big week end working on the car.
After looking at Erx's 8v gear selector setup I was inspired and I did my own. Which although works fine I have already have an upgrade to a fabricated gear stick to remove the plasticy genuine one.
After removing the section of firewall near the old hole and puting back the Gearbox and Motor it was fairly simple.
I originaly fabricated the bracket 20mm shorter thinking I was going to drop the sector shaft into the tunnel a little to lower the stack as it is quite tall being that in the other car they run under the car... as you can see I used 2 bits of 20mm tube the raise it back up... in doing this I picked up the original mounting holes.
The tube holding the shaft is raised 40mm and this works out really well as it still fits under the bracket that holds up the dash.
The new shaft set in the same position as the old so to align with the console needs to be cut 65mm shorter.
I remade the peice removed from the firewall and reused the large hole from the original shaft so to reuse the rubber boot.
The centre console does cover this all perfectly and the only obvious this is the stick is a few inches higher.
Ant
alot of pictures arn't working?
Ok I can see all from here... any way I can fix this?
Ant
Ian T
25-02-2007, 10:06 PM
Ant, I'll edit your posts to show which ones don't work for me...
Ian.
EDIT: They all do now... !
I have been asked about the chromoly lower control arms a few times of late and this was my latest reply to keep anyone else up to speed.
Rob,
At this point they are untested... not that i expect to have any problems. I showed a few poeple here in Aus that are very involved in racing and in paticular Off Roading and thay have suggested 2 small strengthing additions.
The car will be running by the end of next week and shortly after this I will fit the arms and test them.
I have full intensions of making these arms availble to buy as a few other parts I have had to make.
I am also going to get a mold made of my bumpers (GTE with the driving light holes) back and front... so I can have super light fibreglass (and maybe carbon fibre etc) bumpers for the road/track.
Me being in Australia will be a small problem for transport but they will be cheap with the exchange rate. And I will offer them as group buys to offset transport.
This build has taken so much longer than I thought but as soon as the arms are tested I will be letting the world know for sure.
antony
I have almost completed the car now and this week end I will have it drivable and soon heading down south to put the car on the dyno.
Antony
KADETT-BOB
15-06-2007, 12:47 PM
Your suspension is crazy looking. The springs look very long. It's horrible the amount of work to be done to Kadett suspension to make it adjustable. I bought a similar setup for my Kadett but I'm not sure what to do about a Top Hat. It didn't come with one and I'm not sure if I'll get away with using the original. But It's so annoying that the old huge spring cup has to be cut off. Hopefully it all works out for me. Good Luck with yours. Hopefully you get good results on the Rollers.
You can use the original top hat if you want... you may have to make an adaptor. I would personaly get a spherical ball top hat and do the job right... they are not that expensive.
Depending on where you are in the world I am sure there is a Mk2 owner around that has done this once.
The springs do look long... these are my rally springs sitting the car about normal height to use as much travel as I can... my tarmac springs are much shorter with tender springs to make up the difference.
ant
Danny
18-06-2007, 10:53 PM
Some great work there, Ant.
Where abouts in Australia are you?
I spent a year working there back in 2000.
Some great work there, Ant.
Where abouts in Australia are you?
I spent a year working there back in 2000.
Danny... Brisbane in the sun.
ha and 2000 while you where here I was living in London out at West Hampstead.
Ant
Moving closer to a complete car... getting the car ready to take away for a week of completing the wiring and then dyno the engine... so the end of next week I should be able to give a report my first drive on the road.
The race car work shop my friends run also have car scales... so I will be doing corner weights and moving things like battery and water bottles around the cabin to balance the car. So I will have a fair bit of data to report on as well.
Ant
A successful week working on the car...
On the dyno we tuned the car getting 115Hp at the weels... with more to get but ran out of time to chase cam timing.
I put the car on the scales and got very excited to see 902kgs... till Greaham taped me on the sholder and said "what about the other bits missing"... party pooper!.
So official weight was 945kgs with:
2 x 1kg fire extingueshes
1/2 tank of fuel
spare wheel (this was a steel rim trailer wheel that weighed 18kgs on its own)
2.5 litre windscreen washer botter
both seats in place + harness
all engine and gearbox fluids
battery (in rear left over fuel tank)
I couldn't think of anything else to add at the time... the only thing was medical kit and some extra cable for the battery isolator... so I was pretty impressed with this.
I have corner weights:
Front 62%
Rear 38%
Left 49.5%
Right 50.5%
LF/RR 46.7%
RF/LR 53.3%
LF 273kgs RF 308kgs
LR 191kgs RR 165kgs
Total 945kgs
...looks like if I moved the battery from the LRear to the LFront it would ballance the car a little better.
Ant
Wired Digi Dash today worked a treat...
Here is the info needed for a Daewoo to GTE Digi Dash conversion. Attached are 2 pdfs containing the wiring info needed.
This is for 1995 Daewoo 15i 3 door as sold in Australia
You will need to add the speedo sender to the gear box and run the 3 wires to dash... I also ran a new tacho wire from the negative coil wire (mine was cut when I rewired the engine bay).
Ant
Finished off my dash today... in the process I think I have solved my window demist delema.
I mounted 2 12v power supply fans to the underside of the dash over the 2 holes and wired then to a switch. Seems to work very well and blows more air than I expected.
The car should be done but I am waiting for helper springs for my rear coil overs...
ant
Rear suspension finally finished last night.
The car sits about right for tarmac setup and I can raise the spring plate 45mm and this is more adjustable by making the spacer longer or shorter between the locknuts and the helper spring.
ant
Remote Oil Filter was plumbed into place last week... later I will add a engine oil cooler.
Fitted Oil Presure Sensor on the weekend so the Digi Dash conversion is now complete.
I had a drama with the size of the sensor and the Camira alternator bracket. On the original Camira with the 8v 2.0ltr engine there was a 4th engine mount that was off the alternator bracket... so I had to remove some of the bracket.
While at the wreckers getting the plugs I needed to connect the sensor to the dash I found they had a equal length drive shaft from a Calibre... so I got that while I was there. :applause:
Hopefully the car goes to the engineer tomorrow afternoon and I will be able to legaly drive on the road.
The Car is finished.
I had to buy a new battery (got screwd around but replacement warranty one) . I got a AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) Sealed Battery that was half the size as the other and 300CCA. Does 2 things.. knocks another 5kgs off the weight (yeah 940kgs now) and smaller foot print.
Last week I got the engineering done... so the car is legal on the streets now.
Fitted the equal length drive shaft on the weekend.
Boy does it scoot 940kgs, 115Hp@wheels, equal length shaft, close ratio Hewland gears and Quaif ATB with 4.8:1 diff... Off the line almost no wheel spin shifting at 6000rpm it is very quick :applause: ... I'm gonna loose my lisence :(
Ant
Gteman
29-08-2007, 07:04 PM
Glad to hear its finished, you just need to show us the evidence !!!
Battery prices here in the Uk are going through the roof due to a 340% rise in the cost of lead. I can't say ive heard of an AGM battery :confused:
astrasteve23
29-08-2007, 07:44 PM
and on the subject of lead, there is a lot being nicked by gypos around here so they can weigh it in, at the moment i am working at a local church replacing the lead on top of the tower, just under 10grands worth of lead going on and it went missing somewhere between lead depo and builders murchant!!!!
Battery prices here in the Uk are going through the roof due to a 340% rise in the cost of lead. I can't say ive heard of an AGM battery :confused:
AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) Sealed Battery is like a Odysey Gel filled Battery but has a glass matt instead of plates this makes them more resistant to vibration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorbent_glass_mat
And the one I got is cheap only $200AUD which is about 80pounds
Ant
Alex mac
31-08-2007, 11:28 PM
:TTIUWOP:
Let us see lol :thumbsup:
Montytronix
01-09-2007, 12:52 AM
looks like the chinese have their eyes on lead now:
first it was steel
then it was plywood
followed by timber
and now its lead?
Now batteries cost a fortune???! FFS
they produce cheap goods BUT control the supply and price of raw materials and supply of cheap goods but will increase prices when everyone else worldwide is out of business [and treat their own ppl like slaves-unfair competition]
increasing our inflationary prices to rediculous levels
is it really worth it?....i sincerely wonder
Montytronix
01-09-2007, 01:03 AM
aint it time for kit car Mk2 GTE's with roll cage?
now that would really be somink....but probably take 3th gear to get traction lol
The car is going great... such a buz to drive.
I have noticed a funny thing... any young guy in a hot car wont race me off the lights... they even wait for me to move first... lol it's funny.
But old codgers (well probley my age and a little older) have given me a go. So fare a Subaru Liberty gave me a go and I blew it and yesterday a BMW (dont know what model but big and probley 10 year old) couldnt even get a away from me.
Now mind you these are in the city so 60km area so no one will do 100 but if they had a propper go they would find out that with 50 series tires on 15" rims and 4.8:1 diff ratio it only pulles 140km in 5th at 6000rpm.
I've had a efw people nearly fall out of there cars looking at it and I have been cought up with people wanting to know what it is... it's really cool.
So far I have met a ex South African Rally Champion who drove Golfs works cars... a couple of the local Police guys wanting to know if this thing was legal and "yep, look at the blue plate Officer" I say then all they want to know is how I got from 0 to 60 so quick.
Congratulations for finishing project - it is really nice to see another beautiful and clean kadett.
Had a rough summer myself, will post some pictures and vid's later, when winter comes and will have more time.
I have made a decission to call my car a Kadett GSi... I hope this is still cool as I would say the majority are Astra GTE's.
The main reason is really the purpose for building the car. I will be competing in Classic Rallying here in Australia. The rulles for this are pre 1985 cars.
In 1984 Opel built the Kadett GSi Works Rally Cars and they where homoligated 1st November 1984 for Group A as a Opel Kadett-E-GSi (Homologation A-5242).
Here are the parts of the original press release from Opel in 1984.
http://thor.pointclark.net/kadett.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/kadett2.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/kadett3.jpg
So this was a 18i SOHC with 125Kw (I assume at the flywheel) .
I have been playing with some pin stripping on the weekend and did a rough outline. I have the full solid colours ordered and the rest of the lettering to go on... but here is a dodgy pic taken with my phone.
http://thor.pointclark.net/my_kadett.JPG
So this is what the machine will look like... my pic doesnt give it any justice here, it looks very neat... even with the pinstripping as it is... it looks great.
A good friend of mine is a photographer of sorts and he is going to do some pics I hope this weekend.
Digi Dash works a treat.. I really love it.
My speedo was out buy about 20km/h... to fix this I bought a kit from Jaycar
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5435&CATID=&keywords=speedo&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=
This works very well... so well and so easy to build and setup I would recomend this to anyone who has digi dash speedo reading error with different wheel sizes etc.
I used a mate with his mand held GPS... drove down the road and he just dialed in the speed and that was that.
So now I can set for my 50 series tyres on 15" rims... do the same for my rally tyres (which are about 2" higher in profile)... write down the settings and when I change to each wheel size click the settings required. You can set 99% up or down.
Cost in Australia is about $50 so what about 20Pounds cheap and easy fix.
Any more info just ask... if you have trouble getting the kits let me know.
The car looks lovely mate.
astrayorkie
15-09-2007, 10:30 PM
Digi Dash works a treat.. I really love it.
My speedo was out buy about 20km/h... to fix this I bought a kit from Jaycar
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5435&CATID=&keywords=speedo&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=
This works very well... so well and so easy to build and setup I would recomend this to anyone who has digi dash speedo reading error with different wheel sizes etc.
I used a mate with his mand held GPS... drove down the road and he just dialed in the speed and that was that.
So now I can set for my 50 series tyres on 15" rims... do the same for my rally tyres (which are about 2" higher in profile)... write down the settings and when I change to each wheel size click the settings required. You can set 99% up or down.
Cost in Australia is about $50 so what about 20Pounds cheap and easy fix.
Any more info just ask... if you have trouble getting the kits let me know.
i like the idea of this and is a easy solution for my gearbox until it comes out again i am going to get on to the uk supplier
cheers dude:thumbsup:
Big weekend on the car again... fitted the Chromoly front control arms.
http://www.astra-mk2.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1905&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1162076720
The adjusters I designed have not been finished so I made packers... this was fine just slower because you had to remove the nut etc to add or remove a washer... the screw adjusters I designed would make this faster.
I setup 1 3/4 deg neg camber and 4 deg caster with ease.
Looking forward to test this at the hill climb this sunday.
Did a "Come and Try" day at the Mt Cotton Hill Climb track here in Brisbane.
The car went very well... I managed a very good time of 54secs for two runs after only doing 4 laps with a trainer then 4 laps on my own... I have never been there before and on unfamilliar black stuff they car tarmac.
A target time I was told to beat was 53secs done by a good friend and professional driver trainer/rally driver and god... he did in a modified Suzuki Ignus 4x4 with slick tyres and WRX with good road tyres... so I am happy with my go.
ignor the watermark :(
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Mtcotton_Hillclimb_2.jpg
and note the club sticker :thumbsup:
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Mtcotton_Hillclimb.jpg
Gteman
30-09-2007, 06:12 PM
Car looks awesome m8 http://www.easysmileys.com/img/love_inlove.gif
I like the sticker on the boot rather than the window :thumbsup:
few weeks of ups and downs...
Got the car finish with the graphics... looks just like the 1984 Works Opel rally car now. I'll get some pics up soon.
But I had an accident tuesday arvo... would believe turning into my street. My drivers side chromemolly lower controle arm snaped. This was at low speed slowing from 60kms and turning 90deg into my street of which I live on the corner.
The result was smashed inner CV on my Calibra equal length shaft and the wheel whent back and crunched the bottom of the guard.
Jacked up the car remove the drive shaft put the old one in and bolted on the original lower control arm... drove into the garage :(
All is good it could have been at the Hill Climb a few weeks ago or doing some stupid speed on the road.
On the upside I bought a newish car.
Probably not mentioned my tow car in this forum. I have or had a Nissan Pathfinder not so standard. Removed all the original motor front drive shaft and 4x4 gearbox... replaced it with a SR20DET with 4spd electric OD Auto, making it weight about 1800kgs (2200kgs std). running big intercooler and big exhaust with LINK ECU we had it up over 280HP at the wheels untill I broke a gearbox so we turned it down to 210Hp.
People looked suprised when I overtook them uphill at 120km/h with the car on the trailer. :)
The new car Nissan Stagea Wagon. Secifications (http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/nissan/stagea/1998_8/21841/)
This is in Perl White and is a fantastic car. it's basically a Nissan Skyline GTR running gear in a wagon. 4x4 with centre diff lock 2.5Lt Turbo motor at about 205Kws. Aircon, Powersteer, Airbag, Satnav/TV/CD, Power Windows, 2 Sunroofs (front and back) ABS, Centr Difflock and Stability Control. etc etc.
Blackvanman
28-11-2007, 06:52 PM
Hi mate.
Nice looking Astra you have there. :)
By some strange twist of fate I appear to be doing the same as you only kind of in reverse !
i.e I live in the UK and I happily spend my time working on my 34 year old Falcon V8s . I have an Astra Mk2 as well of course. Which sometimes doubles as an impromptu work bench.
3238
Yep thats a Landau in the background. The XB Ute is in 20,000 pieces.
Hi mate.
Nice looking Astra you have there. :)
By some strange twist of fate I appear to be doing the same as you only kind of in reverse !
i.e I live in the UK and I happily spend my time working on my 34 year old Falcon V8s . I have an Astra Mk2 as well of course. Which sometimes doubles as an impromptu work bench.
Yep thats a Landau in the background. The XB Ute is in 20,000 pieces.
Good work... I am not a falcon man myself but if there is anything I can chase up for you or anything on ebay that is in Brisbane you want me to put an eye over before you bid... just ask.
I good friend of mine has just started working in Spare Parts at a Ford dealership he may be able to do some research as well.
I am jealous that you could use a Mk2 as a work bench :grumpy:
Another big weekend.
Took the car to Morgan Park Raceway a few hours drive west of Brisbane. Its is a 2.1Km track with a street circuit feel... nice and tight and twisty.
The car went exceptionaly well.
Results from my day out... very happy with these.
1 00:01:25.98 10.1% 00:01:25.98 10.1% 1/12/2007 3:08:00 PM
2 00:02:48.76 19.9% 00:01:22.78 9.7% 1/12/2007 3:09:22 PM
3 00:04:11.92 29.7% 00:01:23.16 9.8% 1/12/2007 3:10:45 PM
4 00:05:32.37 39.1% 00:01:20.45 9.5% 1/12/2007 3:12:06 PM
5 00:06:53.40 48.7% 00:01:21.03 9.5% 1/12/2007 3:13:27 PM
6 00:08:14.85 58.3% 00:01:21.45 9.6% 1/12/2007 3:14:48 PM
7 00:09:36.71 67.9% 00:01:21.86 9.6% 1/12/2007 3:16:10 PM
8 00:10:58.06 77.5% 00:01:21.35 9.6% 1/12/2007 3:17:32 PM
9 00:12:18.59 87.0% 00:01:20.53 9.5% 1/12/2007 3:18:52 PM
10 00:14:09.07 100.0% 00:01:50.48 13.0% 1/12/2007 3:20:43 PM
Car weight: 940kg
HP @ Wheels: 118hp
Quaif ATB with 4.8:1 diff ratio
Front -2 deg Camber
+3 deg Caster
3mm toe out
Rear -1deg Camber (aprox)
3mm toe in
Summery of my times at Morgan Park.
First trackday April 2005 Road Tyres 00:01:26.21
Rod Browning Diving (driver Trainer) Road Tyres 00:01:26.11
Second test July 2005 Slicks Tyres 00:01:23.65
01-12-2007 Slicks Tyres 00:01: 20.45
The earlier '05 test the ride height was lower... aprox 20+mm lower...coil overs added '07 springs need to be 20+mm shorter (same rate @ wheel)
Spring rates and engine performance was the same for '05 and '07.
Front and Rear geometry was the same for '05 and '07.
The roll cage definitely made the car feel tighter and more predictable on the limit... gave me very consistance lap times as this one session shows. without the cage I had to "chase" the car more.
The biggest change was of course the Close Ratio box with the Quaif ATB diff... plus with the equal length drive shafts and electric power steering combined with left foor breaking I had no noticable torque steer.
Comparison from the day.
Skyline GTR 300+hp 00:01:17.65
Peugeot 404 2.0lt Injected Superchaged 200+Hp 00:01:28.13
Celica GT4 road car 00:01:39.36
Nissan Stagea RB25DET Auto (me driving) 00:01:26.23
Mazda Familia 4x4 Turbo road car 00:01:27.18
RX7 13B Road car 00:01:31.33
Great stuff ant. Good times there and the car is looking awesome!
Great stuff ant. Good times there and the car is looking awesome!
Thanks mate... i appologise for the lack of pics... just been let down by people that where going to take some shots... either not showing or what ever etc...
Ian T
04-12-2007, 11:31 PM
Great results and the pics are fabulous. I always thought the latest club stickers were most suited to white cars.
I'd have stuck it onto the rear bumper in the middle, but it works well where you've put it.
Ian.
Pics of the car finished
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_front.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_front_2.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_side.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_rear.jpg
Inside the car
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_inside_d.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_inside_p.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_inside_dash.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_rear_inside.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_motor.jpg
johnl
08-12-2007, 09:46 PM
Didn't realise this was an 8v. For some reason I thought it had an xe in it. Anyway its looking the part.
Didn't realise this was an 8v. For some reason I thought it had an xe in it. Anyway its looking the part.
That will come... but the original car from which I re-shelled the Daewoo to make the replica had this 2.0lt 8v motor. If I am to rally this car under the "Classic Rally" rules here in Australia I have to build a 1.8lt 8v motor to make it pre 1985.
So my idea will be to build an 1.8lt 8v donk for classic rally and I'll build a XE for the rest of my motor sport needs.
It was was one of the deciding reasons to spend the money on a LINK ECU... I can just put in which motor I want, plug the laptop in and load the setting for which ever motor... and off I go.
Good things come in 2's at the moment.
Bought a Calibra with a C20XE in it for less than I would pay for a motor from the wreckers... so that is sorted.
In the precess of looking I stumbled onto a F28 6spd which I have got reasonably cheap.
So fly to Melburne pick up the Cali drive through Sydney and pick up the F28 and be home some 2 days later... about a 2000kms trip.
So the next upgrade will be fun.
Which 2wd kit should I get... one kit has 4 bolts (Chris Astley Motorsport) and one has 5 bolts (M-TECH CONVERSION KIT)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220145479351&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/f28-gearbox-2wd-conversion-kit_W0QQitemZ290189327590QQihZ019QQcategoryZ10404Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Either would be ok? I was thinking the 5 bolt maybe stonger?
Efrain A.
14-12-2007, 08:53 PM
car looks business!
why do you want to run an F28?
car looks business!
why do you want to run an F28?
Thanks yeah happy with how it has come together.
Mayme I am dreaming... and someone jumpin and tell me so... but I intend on using different diff ratio.
The box has a 3.72 diff so at 7000rpm in 6th you could do 277km/h with 195x50x15 tyres.
If you put in a 4.8 diff at 7000rpm in 6th you would be doing 214 km/h with the same tyres (44km/h in first and the rest close).
With my 5 speed with a 4.8 diff I am only doing about 140 or 150 km/h on the same tyre... good for the hill climb and auto cross but no good for tarmac rally or QLD race track or any track with a straight longer than 2 feet :(
I guess I will have sourse or get made a crown wheel and pinion though but that doesn't scare me.
Kev Read
18-12-2007, 07:33 PM
The car looks awsome mate, good to see mk2's all over the world.
_SBD16v
26-01-2008, 05:20 PM
well i got very excited about the lower arms untill i see you broke one :(
is there any chance of some details on where it broke,and why you think it did please.
as i am going to get some made soon and would like to have a better idea on where i might be going wrong
cheers rob
richie00boy
26-01-2008, 06:09 PM
Good times there. Is the engine running the Link ECU to get that 118 brake at the wheels?
The pic above there is with the 1.8 in?
Good times there. Is the engine running the Link ECU to get that 118 brake at the wheels?
The pic above there is with the 1.8 in?
Yes its running the LINK Ecu... but no on a 2.0lt 8v.
Ballanced bottom end, forged pistons, Lighten Flywheel. The head is port matched to the inlet and exhaust with a mild cam and vernier cam wheel. Compression ratio raised to 10.5:1 and a larger throttle body.
Because the LINK is so adjustable I seem to get more HP everytime I go to the dyno. There is definetly a few more horses there as we have never really played with cam timimg.
I use the original cast exhaust manifold and I have a hand made 2 into 1 made speacialy... but like everything never had the time to get full extractors and try them to compare.
If i was to build a 8v 2.0lt again I would do it differently and use a 1.8lt motor and bore it out to 2.0lt.
The talk here for me about the 1.8lt motor is only for "Classic Rallying" here in Australia as to make the car pre 1985. This will be a "fire breathing motor from hell" as it will only be in the car for events that need it (like 5 a year) so it will be high lift cam, solid lifters and lightened internals. Everything will be ceramic coated, bench flowed... the motor will be built in the "engine computer" first to acheive the max HP possible you can flow through the head.
You have to remember the works teams got 170Hp in 1985 so I assume that is at the flywheel which would be 140 - 150 maybe at the wheels... which makes sense I am sure Blydenstien says 150HP for the 8v head flow is max.
_SBD16v
26-01-2008, 10:05 PM
bottom arms ??
well i got very excited about the lower arms untill i see you broke one :(
is there any chance of some details on where it broke,and why you think it did please.
as i am going to get some made soon and would like to have a better idea on where i might be going wrong
cheers rob
Yeah was a bummer... I did prove they worked a treat and I will have another go at them.
The simple answer is I got some wrong data on the wall thickness I needed. They where simpley to thin... the data was for a wishbone setup so there where multiple tubes out to the strut not one... so effectively it was twice as weak.
I know (now) that the 90's 405 BTCC cars had a similar setup with one tube the wall thickness was so thick they just tapped the tube and screwd in the rose joint. So I would guess 5mm wall... my mate had one bought from the UK in his shed but has now sold it.
I will get back to this but I am concentrating on the XE at the moment. I did do a simple mod to the Original arms to make it adjustable... I'll take a pic and post it.
_SBD16v
26-01-2008, 10:48 PM
I did do a simple mod to the Original arms to make it adjustable... I'll take a pic and post it.
i have thought about this before welding a sloted plate onto the lower arm so you can slide ball joint in and out
i have thought about this before welding a sloted plate onto the lower arm so you can slide ball joint in and out
Yes.. but slots can be a problem as there is a lot of force trying to push the wheel back.
I machined a block with the 2 angles you need if you look at the ball joint you will see they are angles from the centre line of the arm to the centre line of the strut... if it was 90deg the ball would bind on full travel.
You can see there are 2 bolts in the top shot where the 3rd was I taped a hole for the rose joint. so for the driverside it was the front bolt and passenger the front. This is to take advantage of getting a bit more castor.
I cut away some of the back of the arm to fit the block in and with the 2 bolts I checked that I had similar castor both sides... when I was sure I welded the block into place.
I welded a extra full nut to give me more length for camber (I should have made the block a little longer).
I then shapped the block a little with a grinder to make it a little less chuncky.
I don't have the broke arm here so I can't take a pic of it... sorry.
_SBD16v
26-01-2008, 11:05 PM
Yes.. but slots can be a problem as there is a lot of force trying to push the wheel back.
I machined a block with the 2 angles you need if you look at the ball joint you will see they are angles from the centre line of the arm to the centre line of the strut... if it was 90deg the ball would bind on full travel.
I am just chaging my camera.. I'll take a wheel off and take a pic now... give me 10mins.
legend
Ok another big day. Bolting in the C20XE into the car has been painless so far. She looks good in the engine bay... can't wait till I can run her :applause:
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Image002.jpg
Took a bit of working out what was what but I am getting there. Just waiting for a few bitss from the UK and Germany and I'll be off to the Dyno.
I had looked at going with Hyabusa T/Bodies but have shelved this idea for a while.
Instead I have ceramic coated the inlet manifold to keep the air charge cold as I can. I got a 4mm bigger throttle body from Germany and bought a Powercap from Vauxhall Parts on ebay. I also bolted the Bigend with a set of ARP bolts.
With the inlet... I cut away the water jacket around number 1 inlet to help keep it cooler and removed the water pipes going to the vacumme fitting that goes to the head.
This should help in getting a few more horses.
Ok big afternoon on the car.
The 4mm oversize trottle body has arrived and I have fitted it ready for tune next week.
Looking at the Powercap I noticed placing the gasket the hole was some 4mm smaller on one side of the face bolting onto the T/B... not a very good job of casting :(
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/powercap.jpg
So after a little grinding....
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/powercap_2.jpg
Looks much better.
So now all is almost ready for tune... just have to connect the extractors to the rest of the system and on the dyno it will go.
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/16v.jpg
DarrenH
13-02-2008, 12:31 PM
your car looks amazing. the vinyl filled in.
what i find the most refreshing is the car does not look lowered at all (front ride height most notably) yet is quite obvious astonishing handling.
is this on purpose to keep the control arms and steering rods horizontal ?
two fingers up to the "slam it 60mm" brigade lol !
your car looks amazing. the vinyl filled in.
what i find the most refreshing is the car does not look lowered at all (front ride height most notably) yet is quite obvious astonishing handling.
is this on purpose to keep the control arms and steering rods horizontal ?
two fingers up to the "slam it 60mm" brigade lol !
Thanks mate...
At the end of the day this is a race car so ride hight is dictated by a few things and it is being built with tarmac rallying in mind... people do make tarmac rally cars sometimes to low and the world is not flat you need some travel to go fast and stay on the road.
I was quoted by a suspension expert that you should try to achieve closer to 200mm travel for tarmac rallying... he was talking about Targa Tasmania which is no different to driving around in England country roads... fast.
When I look at my Bilstiens I notice that the travel is about 1/3rd the length of the shock... if you look at more modern shocks they look closer to 50/50. This is an area I will look at in the future... so low but with max travel.
The front ride hight... most people lower the front and this is the biggest mistake for a front wheel drive (and 4WD) the front should be level or a little higher to reduce the weight transfer which is going to be monumental on a car with 60 or 65+ percent of the weight over the front wheels. This will help heaps with turn in and reduce understeer as well as help in hard breaking.
The rear is aprox 20mm higher than I like it for my ideal setup, which when lowered will then lower the front another 20mm. I just havn't pulled the rear springs out to adjust them with the cutoff wheel yet... I want to go back to Morgan Park to do back to back laps with only the engine change before I improve the suspension more. I want to see what the pure extra HP and engine RPM will do to my lap times.
I am getting there :thumbsup:
Big day on the dyno today.
After finishing off the wiring we got ready to run her... ha and a few things we found out with a ceramic coated inlet manifold.
The first thing was the earths from the loom that bolted onto the manifold was isolated by the ceramic coating so a quick fix running short earth extensions to the head fixed that.
So she now started but when I reved her I noticed the volt meter was still on about 12v and I thought maybe I didn't push the alternator plug on... but as I reved the engine there where bright blue sparks coming from the alternator area. Took a few mins to work out that the alternator was isolated from the manifold as well and it was actually jumping and sparking off the ceramic like a sparkler... so another earth strap fixed that.
Brendon spent a good hour doing light loads and when he was ready we did a first run... the result was 145Hp... another hour doing more load runs at 50km 60km 80km... etc we do a second power run... 149HP
Another half hour cleaning up and and we did a 3rd power run 152.8HP @ the wheels was the final result.
I would recomend ceramic coating your manifold... works a treat. I measured the temp of the head during the power runs and was about the 80C Deg and the manifold was only about 48C (this is on the outside, inside would be less)... another thing was the fuel rail, it was only in the 40's C as well being bolted to the manifold it was not absorbing much heat at all and with the fuel running through it it was cooling down and radiated heat from the taped cover... very efective!
So stock motor with 180,000 kms on the clock. Powercap, Ceramic inlet manifold, standard Calibra extractors, 4mm oversize throttlebody, Aftermarket Fuel reg and LINK Ecu (fully programable) for 153HP @ Wheels is pretty good I think :applause:
Did my first official race in the Kadett yesterday.
Dirt Sprint Series at Willowbank Autocross track. The track is a formed road base serface compacted. The rules only allow standard road tyres or slick tyres... the slicks are quicker when the top layer of dust is brushed off.
Yesterday I selected to run my slicks but in hind sight road tyres would have been beter as they used other parts of the complex that doesn't get used as much and was less compacted... the field was unusualy small so it took most of the day to brush the top layer off.
The car went very well and I finished the day with 3rd in class.
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Dirtsprint_08.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/dirtseries.JPG
After the last run we where allowed to do a special run using the complete complex wich even had a handbrake turn.. on this run I posted the 6th fastest time outright of which 4 of them where 4WD WRX's and GTR's... by this run the track was perfect mostly smooth and hard and being a longer test I was able to get heat in the rear tyres.
Gteman
17-03-2008, 06:30 PM
Well done 3rd is great for a first outing :thumbsup:
So stock motor with 180,000 kms on the clock. Powercap, Ceramic inlet manifold, standard Calibra extractors, 4mm oversize throttlebody, Aftermarket Fuel reg and LINK Ecu (fully programable) for 153HP @ Wheels is pretty good I think :applause:
153 at the wheels! Nice! Car's looking ace mate. Is this Link ECU aftermarket too? I would love to see 153 at the wheels on mine, I would be over the moon with that considering how little has been done to the engine. Top man, respect.
153 at the wheels! Nice! Car's looking ace mate. Is this Link ECU aftermarket too? I would love to see 153 at the wheels on mine, I would be over the moon with that considering how little has been done to the engine. Top man, respect.
LINK ecu http://www.linkecu.com/ is a aftermarket fully programable ecu. I have a G3 wich you just plug the USB cable into the laptop and everything is tunable. They are comparable to anything on the market including Motech and the price is very good. I have had 3 LINK's and not one have had a problem.
Mine has basic traction controle, flat shifting or Launch controle with full datd logging, etc ect... you can get dashes for them also. The best thing about them they are very easy to setup and manage yourself with a little learning.
When I got the First LINK on the 8v motor we got 20HP more at the wheels on the first setup... this was coming from a chipped standard ecu.
I ran the Opel at the 2nd round of the Dirt Sprint Series at Willowbank Autocross track.
In the First round I finished 3rd in Class B... this time I made sure I had the tyres for the day and I changed my setup for more traction.
In the first round I ran my Tarmac setup of 300lb front springs and 200lb rear (at the wheel)... this track being very smooth but compacted dirt/road base I felt I was not getting the traction.
I changed to my Rally setup with 200lb front springs and 200lb rear (at the wheel). The car was definetly better to drive.. I think even though the surface is smooth it is not tarmac smooth and I was loosing drive.
This time I put the car in First in Class B. :thumbsup:
I have not seen the official results but it looks like I may even passed a few of the 4wd cars as well.
Ian T
23-06-2008, 12:18 AM
Excellent stuff Ant. :)
Love the idea that the humble Kadett is doing so well on the other side of the world. :)
Ian.
I have been quiet on the forum of late... home reno's... don't think I need to say anymore :(
But on the developement side of things I have been ebaying away and come up with more "go fast bits".
I have purchased 272 deg cams and vernier wheels... but more exciting is Lexmaul Ram Inlet manifold I got for a reasonable price.
So I will be going down to the tuners as soon they arrive to fit and tune.
DarrenH
28-07-2008, 10:23 AM
interesting purchase ant.
i looked at one of those lexmaul in 2000/2001 for my first GTE, the only trouble for us with right hand drive, the throttle and plenum wants to be right where the brake master cylinder and servo is. they do do a right hand drive version of the manifold, but the runners are all deformed to fit the engine bay, which seems completely counter productive (since its whole design is meant to be straight runners)
look forward to seeing your results.
interesting purchase ant.
i looked at one of those lexmaul in 2000/2001 for my first GTE, the only trouble for us with right hand drive, the throttle and plenum wants to be right where the brake master cylinder and servo is. they do do a right hand drive version of the manifold, but the runners are all deformed to fit the engine bay, which seems completely counter productive (since its whole design is meant to be straight runners)
look forward to seeing your results.
Darren yeah was wondering about the brake setup... I was thinking a pedal box would fix the problem? maybe?
If there is still not room... something like a remote brake setup like the Alfa's have.
DarrenH
29-07-2008, 01:24 AM
this might help, its what lexmaul sent me with the info pack
http://www.oddball123.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/carstuff/C20XERaminduction2.jpg
1800turbogte
02-08-2008, 06:38 PM
loving your work. The car looks awesome. And the power your getting any suggestions to improve mine?
Chris
loving your work. The car looks awesome. And the power your getting any suggestions to improve mine?
Chris
Chris,
I had a quick read through your car spec... little hard to read in that format though.
Looks like you have done all the work needed for it to go but what ECU are you running?
In my experience of trying to run "chipped" motors I have found it frustrating. When I finaly bit the bullet and bought a Programable ECU (Mine is a LINK G3 www.linkecu.com) I instantly got big HP results.
I know it sounds daunting to go to this sort of system and you need a good tuner with a dyno... you will reap the results.
The second thing that I have a lot of experience working with other people and have just started to do to mine is Ceramic Coating. This now become cheap enough for the average bloke.
Here you can get the temp in all eareas of the engine to work in there maximum range. You having a turbo engine this is very important to sheild the motor from the heat generated by the turbo. This means everything ... intake pipes and manifold, fuel lines, Oil lines, heater and radiater hoses etc.
You have to think about what is hot and what it is close to that you dont want hot... eg. oil lines from your engine to a cooler running next to your fuel lines... that sort of thing. You will be giving away big HP as the engine bay heats up.
Air filter setup. the guys talk about this here from time to time... make sure you look at getting good cool air into you engine and in your case making sure the pipe from the intercooler is not heating up on it's way to the TB. You may have to insulate or ceramic coat this pipe to keep the charge cool.
An eg I did on the dyno a few years ago. My 8v engine with just pod filter sitting in the engine bay with no barrier between the filter and the rest of the bay we did a power run... then put on the original airbox and STD filter with pipe running to the front getting air from outside the engine bay and did a power run.
The result was after about 4 runs 2 of each setup... was an average of 5HP difference and this is on a N/A motor not a turbo.
Get one of those Digital Infrared Thermometer and measure temps around you intake manifold and pipes to see... best to be done on a dyno though.
Well I hope there is something here you can find useful.
1800turbogte
03-08-2008, 11:27 AM
wow thanks for info, the engine was an original turbo conversion done back in 1986 by pace and courtenay. and it runs the standard management.
when i 1st bought the car in 2004 the turbo was not on it. me and a mate had a photo of the engine bay to go on and managed to screw it together.
the difference was spectacular taking the standard 113hp engine up to 149.8hp.
since then a fair bit has changed, total engine re-build, plus all the alloy piping which has taken the flex out which has helped with flow.
unfortunately the fuel pump or relay have gone so cars off the road.
i'l sort it this wk.
i'l have a look at your link to the link device it sounds like my car could do with this.
i'd love to take my car to aus all that open space and the long never ending rds, but dont cut the corners the coppers dont like that.
i lived in maitland nsw, 1972-1976 before we came back to england.
and 1993 travelled round in an 1974 toyota hiace campervan, very happy days.
cheers chris
wow thanks for info, the engine was an original turbo conversion done back in 1986 by pace and courtenay. and it runs the standard management.
when i 1st bought the car in 2004 the turbo was not on it. me and a mate had a photo of the engine bay to go on and managed to screw it together.
the difference was spectacular taking the standard 113hp engine up to 149.8hp.
since then a fair bit has changed, total engine re-build, plus all the alloy piping which has taken the flex out which has helped with flow.
unfortunately the fuel pump or relay have gone so cars off the road.
i'l sort it this wk.
i'l have a look at your link to the link device it sounds like my car could do with this.
i'd love to take my car to aus all that open space and the long never ending rds, but dont cut the corners the coppers dont like that.
i lived in maitland nsw, 1972-1976 before we came back to england.
and 1993 travelled round in an 1974 toyota hiace campervan, very happy days.
cheers chris
Chris,
yeah we have space here that's for sure.
Link are a New Zealand company and most likley have agents in the UK. My tuner (and friend) has worked will them all from Motec to Microtech and they believe Link is the best value for money that give you a true engine management system. Before spending money though you will need to find a tuner will a dyno that knows Link... these are a full wire-in job not a chip or piggy-back system (they are getting harness adaptor for some cars now) so it's a comitment but well worth it.
You don't need to go Link there are heaps of othes out there... best to find a tuner with a dyno you can trust and work from there.
Full engine management on a turbo car is going to give you the max power it can deliver and keep the engine in control and as with Link it will detune the car if it gets warning from the sensors keeping it withing safe parameters. We have all seen or heard how quick a turbo motor can destroy itself if something is wrong.
1800turbogte
05-08-2008, 08:13 PM
hi ant,
checked out the link, and yes there are dealers in the uk. there is a mk 4 version selling over here for about £750, how does this compare.
is this goin to be a hard thing to wire in?
a piggy back option over here is about £500.
regards and thanks chris
hi ant,
checked out the link, and yes there are dealers in the uk. there is a mk 4 version selling over here for about £750, how does this compare.
is this goin to be a hard thing to wire in?
a piggy back option over here is about £500.
regards and thanks chris
yeah sounds about right... Although we may be able to rought the system and you buy one from Australia which with the exchange rate may save you money.
First I would check and see if the Mk4 piggyback is the "real thing" but with a wiring loom adaptor.
I would look at the G3 wire in job personaly and any competent auto electrician with a Mk2 wire layout... I did myself with a little help.
I'll get a quote for a G3 from my tuner (who is a rep) and let you know how much it would be to post... may be cheaper to get it from here.
1800turbogte
05-08-2008, 11:07 PM
cheers thats brilliant. moneys tight but at least il have an idea. the one over here was the g4.
cheers chris
Chris,
For the Link Ecu the savings are not enough to be worth it by the time you add postage... sorry but it was worth a try.
1800turbogte
15-08-2008, 02:00 PM
Chris,
For the Link Ecu the savings are not enough to be worth it by the time you add postage... sorry but it was worth a try.
ok thanks for your time and effort.
chris
Big day at the Third Round of the Dirt Series at Wilowbank Autocross Track.
The surface was very rough for this round... so bad that I had to back off on 2 bumps on the track and even slowing I still bottomed out my front suspension. Ididn't run my full height rally suspension as the surface is usually very smooth but recent rains had made it bumpy.
All excusses asside...
I finished 2nd Class B and 2nd Fastest Time.
One more round in November and I expect I will take out the Series.
I had a problem with smoke at hight revs when accelerating hard but then clears straight away... I checked the compression and all cylinders are fine so I suspect I'm getting oil sucked out of the rocker & cam belt cover into the throttle body.
I believe there is a mod for this? Does onyone else have this problem with the C20XE?
_SBD16v
18-08-2008, 01:03 AM
Big day at the Third Round of the Dirt Series at Wilowbank Autocross Track.
The surface was very rough for this round... so bad that I had to back off on 2 bumps on the track and even slowing I still bottomed out my front suspension. Ididn't run my full height rally suspension as the surface is usually very smooth but recent rains had made it bumpy.
All excusses asside...
I finished 2nd Class B and 2nd Fastest Time.
One more round in November and I expect I will take out the Series.
I had a problem with smoke at hight revs when accelerating hard but then clears straight away... I checked the compression and all cylinders are fine so I suspect I'm getting oil sucked out of the rocker & cam belt cover into the throttle body.
I believe there is a mod for this? Does onyone else have this problem with the C20XE?
are you running the vents from the cam cover back into the throttle body like a standard set-up ???
_SBD16v
18-08-2008, 01:12 AM
just read it and yes you have
ok
remove the 2 breathers that go from the cam cover block the holes that go into the throttle body.
then take off the cam cover and on the underside there is a metal plate that covers most of the head with a very small umm tube (like a u bend)
remove this plate loads of screws around the outside then you have a choice
either dont replace it (this is my prefered choice).
drill loads of larger holes in and replace.
or cut it down so its only about 4 inches long with a massive open end.
this allows the bottom end to breath ALOT better
now its breating better you need to get it to atmopshere
now the 2 pipes that used to go into the throttle body need to go to a catch tank of some description (this can be as simple as a old coke bottle)
this should help with breathing issues
rob
just read it and yes you have
ok
remove the 2 breathers that go from the cam cover block the holes that go into the throttle body.
then take off the cam cover and on the underside there is a metal plate that covers most of the head with a very small umm tube (like a u bend)
remove this plate loads of screws around the outside then you have a choice
either dont replace it (this is my prefered choice).
drill loads of larger holes in and replace.
or cut it down so its only about 4 inches long with a massive open end.
this allows the bottom end to breath ALOT better
now its breating better you need to get it to atmopshere
now the 2 pipes that used to go into the throttle body need to go to a catch tank of some description (this can be as simple as a old coke bottle)
this should help with breathing issues
rob
Rob,
Thanks mate I will get this done for the next run.
Prob needs a write up for the Mods section I think.
I'll take some pics and do a how to... unless someone already has one in the Diary they can move to the Mod section.
_SBD16v
18-08-2008, 01:41 AM
sbd's way of doing it
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Info_sheets/Oil_systems/2.0L%2016v%20SBD%20Cam%20cover%20breathing%20modif ication.htm
the cut down method
Things have been mooving along of late.
Recently I purchased a set of 272 deg cams and vernier wheels and a Lexmaul Ram Inlet manifold from Germany.
The cams I will fit later in the year.. first is the exciting challenge fitting the Lexmaul Ram manifold that is designed for a left hand drive car.
ok first things i did was remove the master cylinder and the booster bracket from the fire wall.
http://thor.pointclark.net/lexmal_manifold_booster_bracket.jpg
You can see there the bottom bolt had been removed... this I did by drilling it out from inside the cabin.
http://thor.pointclark.net/lexmal_manifold_booster_bracket_removed.jpg
Manifold inplace
http://thor.pointclark.net/lexmal_manifold.jpg
You cansee the pedalbox sitting below the manifold... I have it sitting on rags in its place.
http://thor.pointclark.net/lexmal_manifold_pedalbox.jpg
looking from the top
http://thor.pointclark.net/lexmal_manifold_pedalbox_clearence.jpg
and from the side to see clearence from the manifold.
http://thor.pointclark.net/lexmal_manifold_pedalbox_inside.jpg
Looking from inside the cabin.
Ok now that I have the manifold and had a lend of a pedal box as a copy I have designed in AutoCAD a new bolt on pedalbox to replace the booster bracket and angle down a few deg to clear the manifold.
http://thor.pointclark.net/pedal_box_side.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/pedal_box.jpg
I will get these made soon and show the finished product before I bolt it into place.
I have now fabricated the Pedalbox and did a final fitting tonight before finishing the welding off tomorrow.
http://thor.pointclark.net/pedalbox_1.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/pedalbox_2.jpg
All to do will be tidying it up and painting it... then I can plumb it in and start working out the pedal balance.
astramad
09-10-2008, 08:16 PM
good updates mate loads of work have gone into her
1800turbogte
09-10-2008, 10:27 PM
Keep up the good work. Well impressed with that so far cant wait to see it finished and to know how it compares to standard.
Chris
Just about finished the Pedal Box setup.
All to do is bleed the brakes and test.
http://thor.pointclark.net/pedalbox_comp.jpg
here is a pic without the manifold in place
Finished.
http://thor.pointclark.net/engine_bay.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/engine_bay_2.jpg
The manifold sounds great... has a deeper throaty sound now and although I havn't given it any stick.. it seems to pull harder down low.
I have a little work to do to get the pedal feel perfect... but I am just happy to get it together again. :Banane44:
The 272deg Cam shafts will be next but I will wait till I have the time to dyno it before and after fitting the cams.
I have updated pics above of the engine bay with a more complete pics.
On completeing the pedalbox setup and the Lexmal manifold I finished off a few other things.
The cable adjuster supplied with the ballance bar by Tim from TJM worked well (he is here in the forums)... but I couldn't get a more direct line to the balance bar because with my radical design it was very close to the firewall... where with the normal Mk2 "off the shelf" pedalbox it is easier for more of an arc to run the cable.
Note: Tims gear is excelent for the price... everything i have bought from him has been of good quality and a great price... just a plug for you Tim... thanks.
So to fix my problem... and note it did work fine but I wanted a better feel and because of the tight radius I needed the cable had a "wind up" feeling to it.
I bought a Tilton 90 deg drive and this made it easier to get the sharp angle I needed.
http://thor.pointclark.net/pedalbox_comp_6.jpg
This gave me great feel at the nob.
http://thor.pointclark.net/dash.jpg
The second thing I did was setup my battery isolation switch wich as by the CAMS rules here in Australia there has to be a secondary remote switch at the "A" pilor on the outside of the car.
You can see in the Dash pic above I mounted it in the console where the open tray is under the ash tray.
people seem to wire these up buy running all the wires back into the cab or picking the main power wires out of the wiring loom.
I didn't wanty to do this so I setup a second Isolation Post with extra power connections from a Fishing and Marine Centre. Placing this in the engine bay I connected all the power wires that normaly went to the battery including the Starter/Alternator wire.
then just ran 2 heavy power cable from the isolation switch to the battery and the isolation post and it is all done.
http://thor.pointclark.net/cut_switch.jpg
... and here I placed the Pull cable for the battery isolation switch.
http://thor.pointclark.net/cut_switch_pull.jpg
I have done a few kms on the road with the new pedal box. This I am very happy with... now to be honest my original brakes where outstanding and if it wasn't for Lexmal manifold I would most likely have not bothered with the pedalbox setup. Now it is done though i am very happy... the brake feel is fantastic and I have full adjustment from locking up the fronts to locking up the rears and all that in between.
You do have to push harder but not as hard as you think... i find it is that first pedal push you notice that there is no vacuume advantage helping you but as soon as you push that little more it all works as expected.
In the end I am running a 0.825" on the front and a 0.75" on the rear. Originaly I was using a 1" Honda Pelude master cylinder. Now this is all depending on you calipers so don't take my sizes as a starting point... find someone who has done this with similar calipers as mine are Astra Mk3 non ABS rear caliper and Holdern Comodore VL Turbo single piston caliper on the front (these are a all alloy finned caliper).
I modified the pedal ratio to 6.0:1 and may increase it a little more... but the more I increase the ratio the more movement I got before the pedal "took up"... I have noticed looking around that 6.2:1 ratio is the recomended starting point.
I am yet to go to the track and test this setup but I am confident this will work as expected.
In 2 weeks I am off to the tuners to run the car on the dyno with the new manifold and then bang in the 272deg cams and do a full tune... can't wait to see what I get.
astrasteve23
30-11-2008, 06:50 PM
Yes.. but slots can be a problem as there is a lot of force trying to push the wheel back.
I machined a block with the 2 angles you need if you look at the ball joint you will see they are angles from the centre line of the arm to the centre line of the strut... if it was 90deg the ball would bind on full travel.
You can see there are 2 bolts in the top shot where the 3rd was I taped a hole for the rose joint. so for the driverside it was the front bolt and passenger the front. This is to take advantage of getting a bit more castor.
I cut away some of the back of the arm to fit the block in and with the 2 bolts I checked that I had similar castor both sides... when I was sure I welded the block into place.
I welded a extra full nut to give me more length for camber (I should have made the block a little longer).
I then shapped the block a little with a grinder to make it a little less chuncky.
I don't have the broke arm here so I can't take a pic of it... sorry.
what size, thread etc. rod ends did you use? i want to make some for my hillclimb GTE.
Steve,
I will check this arvo after work... I'll also ring a mate who builds cars and check what he recomends as well.
astrasteve23
02-12-2008, 12:59 AM
ok thanks for that.
The thread I taped into the block on the arm was 5/8UNF.
I spoke to my mate and he uses about 1/2inch normaly
I chose this size because the tapered bolt/shaft on the ball joint was about this size and I just drilled it out to 5/8 and used a high tensile 5/8 cap head bolt through the rod end and bottom strut.
I had to use a 5 mm spacer between the bottom face of the strut and the face of the rod end to make sure there was no binding.
astrasteve23
02-12-2008, 11:45 PM
ok thanks for the info
Last week I dynod the motor.
Didn't go to plan.
We found that the 272 deg cams are either not 272 deg or we where expecting more from them. Yes the engine did rev more but we made less peak HP.
The manifold also worked fine but the gain was different than expected. It was obvious from the start the engine was more responsive and reved free to and past 7500rpm.
The vernier cam wheels and the standard cams where only 3hp down on the supposed 272deg cams so in the end we ended up with standard cams with the vernier cam wheels and the Lexmal manifold to get a peak power of 140Hp at the wheels.
The cams will be sent to be better profiled as camshaft profile knowledge has moved on a fair way since these where built.
After putting the engine specs through the engine build software Grahame discovered that the standard exhaust was the main problem... we did expect this but underestimated by how much.
More interesting was the inlet manifold design... we discovered that the Lexmal runners where 11" long... if we reduced this to between 8 - 9" long we get a massive increase in power.
So over the Christmas break I will make a set of extractors and most likely 4 to 1 and I will make a new inlet manifold but with shorter runners... I don't have the balls to cut up the Lexmal manifold.
end result is the car is faster but 10HP down on the old setup... now there are a few factors...
1: the standard manifold was ceramic coated and this seems to be worth a few HP
2: I ran different tyres 195 65 15s instad of the 50 series slicks from last time.. this may soke up a few HP
3: I was running a very heavy engine oil... this I did at the Autocross when I had that smoky oil problem but was oil sucked into the manifold from the tappet cover.
The engine revs to and past 7500rpm very easily now so I have picked up 20+ kms of wheel speed at peak power so before from a standing start I was struggling to hit 145km/h with the 4.8:1 diff but now I did over 165km/h+ over the same distance roughly.
The dyno sheet shows this dramatically
Note: On the dyno sheet the Torque quoted here is Foot Pounds of Tractive Effort not Torque or Foot Pounds of Torque as you may normaly see.
In response to my last dyno and discovering just how much the engine is choked by the standard exhaust manifold I built the new extractor as per Greame's engine building software.
4 to 1 extractors with 26inch primary runners @ 1 1/2... then 2 1/4 main pipe 40inches + to 1st muffler.
Flexjoint 2 1/2 shortest one with mesh inner lined.
http://thor.pointclark.net/16V_extractor.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/16V_extractor_2.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/16V_extractor_3.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/16V_extractor_4.jpg
When I get this finished I will send them to be Ceramic Coated.
I havn't posted in a while and I have done a few things.
After finishing the I indeed had then ceramic coated and fitted a new 2 1/4" system.
I then turned my hand to building a new inlet manifold to see if I can get some more from the old girl.
http://thor.pointclark.net/inlet_manifold.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/inlet_manifold_2.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/inlet_manifold_3.jpg
This went well on the dyno. Ended up getting 155Hp @ the wheels (ran out of dyno time) but the improvements where more in the power delivery. It as has a long power curve and pulls through to 7600rpm now. and remember that this engine is still stock and stock flywheel that has done 180K+ kms and never apart.
Manifold fitted
http://thor.pointclark.net/inlet_manifold_4.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/inlet_manifold_5.jpg
I'll post the dyno sheets soon with the comparison from standard to Lexmal to new inlet manifold etc.
This week end I relocated the battery to make way for the new air box that now will be on the passenger side with the new inlet manifold setup.
http://thor.pointclark.net/battery_relocate.jpg
Battery is now behind the passenger seat.
http://thor.pointclark.net/battery_2.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/battery.jpg
You can see I am using the roll cage to make sure I get a good earth through the car. In the engine bay I also taped a thread and connected the negative cable (that used to go to the battery) to the roll cage.
I have purchased new internals for my engine. I happened on a guy who had bought all the parts and wasn't ale to continue with the build.
WOSSNER 87mm High Comp (12.5:1) Forged Pistons
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Site/pistons.jpg
QED Race Double Valve Springs
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Site/vsprings.jpg
TOGA Steel Rods with ARP 2000 Rod Bolts
WISECO MLS headgaske
ARP Main Stud Kit
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Site/bits.jpg
I now have the parts for building the engine and I have secured an engine builder to help put it together.
Only problem is I have to wait as life is too busy with home reno's and now the house is being painted. Also at the end of the month I am doing a Charity Rally in an old Holden Comodore (Vauxhall Carlton in UK) in the outback raising money for Cancer Research etc.
good luck at the rally and get some pics :thumbsup:
Anthony
05-08-2009, 08:24 AM
Good progress & nice work on the inlet!
Also wouldn't mind see'ing some pics of the rally please mate :-)
Not had a chance to do a thing to the car :hissyfit: but I did to the Starlight Trek '09 for the Starlight Foundation raising money for kids with long trem hospital needs.
The trek was 3000+ kms in a week in out back Australia. Well not the real remote outback like the desert etc... but far enough out.
The Trek raised $60,000 for the foundation and a lot of fun was had.
1985 VK Holden Specs:
VN-VP 3.8ltr V6
Coilover front suspension
Airbag Rear Suspension
Full Sump Guard
Duel Fuel Tanks
Auto Gearbox
Full Rollcage
145Hp @ Wheels
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Holden/trek_09_3.jpg
Minor update..
Built a new cold air box setup after the Inlet manifold rebuild now has the inlet on the other side of the engine bay.
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/IMG_1286.JPG
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/IMG_1291.JPG
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/IMG_1289.JPG
Just waiting for some silicone induction bends and tube to arrive.
RallyMarshal
12-10-2009, 10:30 AM
Just been through the thread and nice work!
What poundage and length springs are you running on the Bilsteins?
The coilover struts on mine are converted to use 60mm springs with an upside down top-hat as the upper spring platform. 225 lb/ft front for tarmac and 200 lb/ft for gravel.
Paul..
Just been through the thread and nice work!
What poundage and length springs are you running on the Bilsteins?
The coilover struts on mine are converted to use 60mm springs with an upside down top-hat as the upper spring platform. 225 lb/ft front for tarmac and 200 lb/ft for gravel.
Paul..
Paul,
thanks...
This was with the 8v engine: 200pound front and rear 200pound for Gravel (at the wheel.. as it would be close with rear coil overs). I change the fronts to 300pound for Tarmac.
I have not worked out the weight of the C20XE compared to the 8v engine because I am waiting to get time to get the F28 Crown Wheel & Pinion made and fit the box before weighing the whole lot and doing the maths.
RallyMarshal
12-10-2009, 11:21 AM
I dont tend to go too hard with the front poundage as our venues arent supersmooth...
Im running std position springs on the back of mine with the Bilstein dampers - dont even know which ones we fitted for the event last weekend but the car sat nicely - suspect they were slightly uprated and lowered springs and the car was very controllable - being able to drift her from slight understeer into slight oversteer with throttle control and weight transfer without any snappyness at all.
Just need to see some pictures from the event now to see if she was ****ing an inside wheel or not.
Paul..
pirate
12-10-2009, 02:30 PM
did you get the pontiac lemans in oz or was that just new zealand and usa? id love to get the bumpers and badges from one and rebadge my belmont lol just to be differant! (they had a gte style rear bumper)
was there any other differances with the early deawoo other then the 1.5 mitsi engine? we didnt get the deawoo til a few years later with a softer facelift.
pirate
12-10-2009, 02:31 PM
lol and i just read first page without relising there was 14 pages...will go back and read haha
I dont tend to go too hard with the front poundage as our venues arent supersmooth...
Im running std position springs on the back of mine with the Bilstein dampers - dont even know which ones we fitted for the event last weekend but the car sat nicely - suspect they were slightly uprated and lowered springs and the car was very controllable - being able to drift her from slight understeer into slight oversteer with throttle control and weight transfer without any snappyness at all.
Just need to see some pictures from the event now to see if she was ****ing an inside wheel or not.
Paul..
Nice..
yeah... Standard Position rear spring rate was 400pound before I built the coil over rear suspension.
did you get the pontiac lemans in oz or was that just new zealand and usa? id love to get the bumpers and badges from one and rebadge my belmont lol just to be differant! (they had a gte style rear bumper)
was there any other differances with the early deawoo other then the 1.5 mitsi engine? we didnt get the deawoo til a few years later with a softer facelift.
There seems to be 5 differences from the Deawoo 15i and the Astra/Kadett E or Mk2.
1: motor
2: gearbox is mainly the same but if you try to change the drive shafts you will notice the different size CV's etc... Deawoo has smaller.
3: Door Cards... The Deawoo has different fabric.
4: Door handles are similar but different
5: Petrol cap is hidden behind a flap.. not exposed like on the "real" cars.
Apart from that the cars are exactly the same.
One thing we found out welding the roll cage... the sill panels seem to be galvanized.
... What poundage and length springs are you running on the Bilsteins? ...
Paul..
Sorry Paul I didn't answer all the question... I'll have to jack up the car and give you a close approx of the spring length... if I can't find the paperwork from when I ordered the springs.
RallyMarshal
13-10-2009, 10:35 AM
No worries
Different types of events, different characteristics and different engine powers (by a lot!) so theres probably not that familiar a comparison anyway.
Paul..
A lot has happened since I last posted... but nothing to do with the car till this week.
Well I moved house and found the double car garage is smaller than the space I was using in the old house... so things have to change and a shed will be built.
Ok the 2010 engine rebuild has begun and I delivered the engine to my engine builder on the weekend.
The parts list:
WOSSNER 87mm High Comp (12.5:1) Forged Pistons
QED Race Double Valve Springs
TOGA Steel Rods with ARP 2000 Rod Bolts
WISECO MLS headgasket
ARP Main Stud Kit
Vauxhall Z20LET oil pump
Alloy Vernier Cam Wheels
Alloy Crank Pulley
Gated Sump mod from mph (found here in the forums)
Modified pickup pipe from steveboyslim (found here in the forums)
Lightened Flywheel and Uprated Clutch.
I did have a uprated oilpump from Regal but after Harvey having the problem with his, I have put that asside and bought the LET pump. The 12.5:1 pistons will be machined to a safer compression. The engine builder who is also a sponsor builds race engines for a living and has worked on everything including ex BTCC cars that he has out performed even the Works Team engine specs... so my expectations are high but we will have to see what I end up with.
In prep mode for the new engine... I have upgraded my remote oil filter and added an oil cooler to the system. I have upgraded the lines to -10 (or 5/8) to allow better oil flow and mounted a 14 row Earls oil cooler.
My older system was great till I changed the inlet manifold now making the spot on the firewall where the Heater Fan used to be, rather hard to get to. Now it is behind the Driver's head light... much easier.
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Site/oilcooler.jpg
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Site/oilcooler_2.jpg
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Site/airduct.jpg
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Site/oilcooler_3.jpg
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Site/oilcooler_4.jpg
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Site/oilcooler_7.jpg
http://www.ynet.com.au/~pmwiki/uploads/Site/oilcooler_5s.jpg
... yeah a couple of pics are black and white... somehow selected that on the camera. :rolleyes:
Dario
18-02-2010, 01:06 PM
Looking good Anthony! :)
aussie astraGTE
07-03-2010, 12:58 PM
its looking quite nice now antony how long till its finished ?
its looking quite nice now antony how long till its finished ?
Yeah finished..lol kind of not ever really finished. Hoping to get the motor back and in soon but there has been a delay. When I do I will attempt to setup the launch control and flat shifting as I was going to do ages ago... the engine builders son is going to help me get it working.
wow nothing has happened for so long... it is just sitting there without an engine... very sad really... It's actually going backwards, as I have been removing parts to finish fuzznucket's GTE C20LET project http://www.astra-mk2.com/forum/showthread.php?28463-Australia-MKII-Astra-GTE-8v-to-C20LET-Conversion-Project-Down-Under.
As soon as his car is going I'll start to put this back together again. But my main concentration is on the Astra 4S http://www.astra-mk2.com/forum/showthread.php?28715-Australia-Vauxhall-Astra-4S-Replica at the moment... so much to do so little time.
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